Anti Feminist Bingo!!

[TheFeministParent]

Elephants had this idea!!

So I'll start

"we're not a homogeneous mass..."
"I don't like to be too narrow..."

It doesn't make me feel good at all when someone says that the reason I disagree with them is because I don't understand their argument
When the truth is not only do I understand the argument, but I can pick off the flaws in the argument one by one

and I didn't say your argument didn't make sense. It makes sense. It's just wrong, factually incorrect, to say poverty is not gendered

But Custardo there isn't a banner big enough under which to fight all injustices, everywhere. Feminism is just one area of focus.

I think you are a feminist at heart because you agree gender based discrimination does exist, and it shouldn't. So that's the basic premise of feminism. It's a broad church and we here are not the high priestesses. Many roads, and all that.

i think custardo may have a point if i hae understood correctly - women are trated worse because they are poorer, not becase they are women?

i think there must be some mileage in that?

I definitely think there's a lot in that PE but the feminist question would be why are they poorer?

no mileage at all. Do you think it's an accident that women are poorer Even with the most recent government targeting women for cuts

And a poor man can always make himself feel better by buying the body of a woman in a situation worse off than himself.
Or raping a rich woman.

what i meant was - poverty becomes an additional factor in any bias-issue - gender included - women lose opportunities first because they are women, and then further because they are financially worse off....

Martin Luther King recognised that the problems of Black US citiens increasingly settled as a matter of rich vs poor rather thn black vs white. I think you can see similar things happening wrt to gender issues.

never simple as one thing or the other!

I disagree.
Poverty- keeping certain groups of people in poverty- is systematic. It's no accident.

It's no coincidence that the most powerful group of people in the world are also the richest. And that group don't want to share. In fact, they know well enough that any sharing of power or money means that their share is reduced. And they're grabby.
The recently installed government has systematically targeted women whilst simultaneously protected rich white men.

It's no accident.

Just on observation,Scottish Mummy posts and gets called a derailer.I don't see other posters being called derailer? Despite also not agreeing.

dunno, I missed the party

seeing as you've read the whole thread, what do you think about the feminization of poverty, NIceShoes?

I find these boards quite intimidating,and tbh I don't want a hard time.I lurk but don't post.I read last night posts,and I didn't post. Your question,do you mean poverty is a women's issue?Yes it is but I don't know what you mean by feminization of poverty.

yes, they are intimidating these boards. A week or so ago, there was a thread about the sex industry and suddenly all these random new people came on saying they were punters from punternet, and had heard through the grapevine that mumsnet had a thread on the sex industry and they'd come to tell us that Prostitutes. Love. Their. Job.
It was weird. I was like this reading the stuff they were coming out with.

Feminization of poverty just means that women as a group are poorer than men. As I said above, it's not a random coincidence that society has been designed this way.

Nice, I find these threads quite scary too and I have no clue what happened with the scottish mummy thing, except she is a poster who has a particular idea about internet debate that might be in play?

The feminization of poverty: this phrase refers to the fact that poverty is a condition in which far more women than men find themselves. If you are a woman, you are more likely to be or become poor, than a man with the same on-paper earning power. Or that's how I understand it anyway.

I think what it is niceshoes, is that there is a difference between disagreeing and derailing.

What derailing really means is to 'obstruct progress'. A derailing post is not designed to enrich the debate, but to move it off course, or keep it stuck at the same place. Sincere disagreement adds to a debate (within reason).

There is a very sarcastic and kind of funny document on the web which does a great job of deconstructing derailing.

www.derailingfordummies.com/

Since reading this I have understood derailing much better.

Hope this explains a bit.

Don't be afraid to post in the feminist section - we are quite nice really, we are just a bit obsessed committed

but poverty generates poverty sakura

Thanks for explanation.I will lurk, but the name calling is all too much for me.This is too out there for me.

I'll just c & p what I wrote above:

"I disagree.
Poverty- keeping certain groups of people in poverty- is systematic. It's no accident.

It's no coincidence that the most powerful group of people in the world are also the richest. And that group don't want to share. In fact, they know well enough that any sharing of power or money means that their share is reduced. And they're grabby.
The recently installed government has systematically targeted women whilst simultaneously protected rich white men.

It's no accident."

Poverty doesn't generate poverty, despite what the tories would have you believe.
The class system generates poverty, with a privileged group of people at the top making the decisions for the rest of us.

A group of people who decided that women (already poorer) should shell out their taxes so that rich incompetent male bankers get bonuses

You're welcome NiceShoes.

Forgot to say, the link is very long but is is a good read. I take my hat off to the person who wrote it.

Aaah, forgot to also say that derailing is not always intentional or malicious in any way - although that doesn't make it less 'blocking'.

Has anyone called anyone anything worse than 'Anti-feminist!'?

Great link, Beachcomber!

I think what I've struggled with is a lack of engagement from some posters. They disagree but won't explain further. Attempts to draw out opinions are called bullying. It's something I have found a little frustrating on a few threads.

If we understand why someone feels the way they do or holds that opinion then there can be a reasonable discussion. The thread about equalist/feminist is one such example of where opinions and ideas are shared respectfully.

After reading and trying to engage, I am still no clearer on where a couple of posters stand on the issue of women being oppressed. I have read carefully in case I've missed something but don't think I have.

I'm still not sure whether certain members on this thread believe women are oppressed. If they are not, then presumably they have nothing to fight for because equality has been achieved.

Perhaps we should start a new anti-feminist language thread? It would be a useful tool for dealing with idiots who throw all the old cliches at us.

Jess,calling other posters idiots and antifeminist.That is what I am on about,why I do not post here.

Hi NiceShoes
From what I have seen, that seems to happen when there is a lack of engagement - on the feminism board, at least. I have seen far worse on other topic threads which is why I stick to the feminism section!

I think that if you are prepared to state your opinion and back up what you say, others may disagree but won't be insulting, in the main. It is a little frustrating when someone states an opinion that challenges feminist received opinion and won't then qualify what they have said and why (I find it so anyway!).

what i meant was, if you start poor, you are more than liekly to end up poor.

women have for centuries been held from propety-owning. Thee are still habits in place in many families and businesses that prvent women inheriting property or other material wealth. also, the wage gap keeps you poor. once poor the treatment you recceive from the restof society is worse -

if you look at the experiences of rich women vs poor women with respect to a range of situations you'll see how big a factor it is.