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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Visual erotica for women

347 replies

SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 16/11/2010 09:59

Because the discussion on this at Ladyfest was fascinating but didn't go on long enough, I fancy continuing it here.
Soo, iirst off, why aren't there proper erotic magazines (with pictures of naked men in them) for heterosexual women?

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BaronessBomburst · 18/11/2010 23:12

Please don't check my profile to see how old DS is now. I'd die of shame! Blush

LeninGrad · 19/11/2010 09:55

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snowflake69 · 19/11/2010 10:27

'I agree, wukter. MOney trumps everything, so something has stopped women from putting their hands in their pockets to shell out for porn.
'
Why would you pay when there are loads of men online and so many free porn sites, webcam sites etc? I pay for webcam sites but dont often buy porn as its so easily copied and its just passed between friends. I dont know any men nowadays that pay sex shop prices for porn as they are way too expensive.

Most of my friends look at those types of pics but mainly porn/cam etc as it. I watch porn at least daily and gets pics from men often and I am married and my husband knows. Its just visual aids and a bit of fun. Most of my friends do it and we are all of similar ages.

snowflake69 · 19/11/2010 10:29

'Boys will be passing wank mags around from when they're quite young & looking at the internet. "Sexy" images of women are everywhere. Young men are raised understanding that it is their absolute right to have plenty of arousing pictures of women everywhere, and that there are plenty of pictures for masturbation, and that is what the pictures are for, to sexually arouse them.

This just doesn't happen for young girls does it'

Again this has changed I have been masturbating over hard cock pics of men/porn etc since I was a teen. We have the net now and thats what most girls do of a younger age group. Its different now as we are lucky to be able to have access to things that turn us on, vibrator, rabbits etc from a young age so we can have what turns us on.

I think you can see the generation gap in these types of threads usually.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:34

Well yes, that's the argument isn't it. WHy would you pay?

Which brings us back to the question of objectifying.
When you contact a real, live person, communicate with them, you are not objectifying them or men in general.

If a man buys porn or a prostitute, say, you are objectifying women. Even men who can 'get' women for free sometimes buy women. That is because they've objectified them i.e turned them into a commodity.

I wanted to mentions something about Japan. Here we have hostess bars (young girls serving men sake, and usually havint to have a 'patron' who she will sleep with). BUT they also have host bars, which are basically for rich housewives and are exactly the same thing. There has been loads of fascinating documentaries on this and even a dramas on it (showing the power hierarchies between the hosts).
But I personally just did not 'get' the idea of paying someone loads of cash to sleep with you. Where's the pleasure in that? Confused
BUt men do it all the friggin time . It just seems so...sad. And watching porn, someone you don't know from Adam, for me is quite unsatisfying too.

That's very different to what you do, snowflake, when you communicate with real men.

So as wukter said, the question here is: DO women want to objectify men the way men objectify women?
I think going by the Japanese example, the answer is: "sometimes, but not to the same extent"

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:37

I mean I don't get the idea of paying someone to sleep with you. They clearly don't fancy you, do they, and are only in it for the money.
Would any women here enjoy sleeping with a man who is only in it for the cash?

snowflake69 · 19/11/2010 10:38

I use loads of porn though. I like it in order to masturbate to. I wouldnt pay for it though cause I can get it for free. I am not really bothered if the bloke is objectified particularly. I just want sexual pleasure from looking at him.

I am big on youporn and am on it a lot watching videos. They are on there so what difference does it make if I watch men doing stuff on there? Its not going to make any difference whether I watch it or not. All my friends do the same.

snowflake69 · 19/11/2010 10:40

'They clearly don't fancy you, do they, and are only in it for the money. '

I think its more usual for women to think most men fancy them so I think that situation wouldnt occur really.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:41

Fair enough, so maybe there is a definite market for women, and maybe they can objectify men like men do to women.
I used to get turned on by porn, but after reading feminist books (!) I haven't because I just imagine the reality, and I know they're acting. THat just doesn't do it for me.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:43

"I think its more usual for women to think most men fancy them so I think that situation wouldnt occur really."

In my experience, even the most drop dead gorgeous women don't think all men fancy them. Well, mainly because men, like women, have got their 'types'

snowflake69 · 19/11/2010 10:44

I dont care if they are acting or whatever really. If I fancy them then I fancy them really. Its the same for if I saw a fit man out or on cam etc. When you are cam its not even like they are real people iyswim they sort of become made up people who are just there for fun/fantasy sort of. I think why it is such a big market for it for both genders.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:50

Well there is a big market for men, but there is a potential market for women, which is what we are discussing here.

So no, there is not a big market right now for both genders.

ISNT · 19/11/2010 10:54

I must admit I flat out do not believe that the average 11/12/13 girl is spending her nights at home masturbating over "hard cock porn".

Things have changed, yes, but not that much.

Snowflake as ever your life experiences and what is the norm in your social group do differ quite wildly from what most people experience.

Honestly "you can see the generation gap" Hmm

I would also dispute the idea that the average UK woman thinks that "most men fancy them".

Snowflake I strongly believe that your lifestyle is not the norm in the UK, and as such when you talk about your lifestyle and insist that it is the norm, it tends to derail the discussion.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 10:57

Yes, snowflake, you are certainly... unique

Hard cock porn- most definitely for the gay market, on the whole

ISNT · 19/11/2010 10:58

The idea that the norm in the UK is empowered women, who have experienced no sexism whatsoever in their whole lives, have never been sexually assaulted in any way, feel totally safe walking alone late at night, have an active open and wide-ranging sex life with no insecurities about anything whatsoever... It's an appealing idea but unfortunately it's just not true for most women. Just because it is true for you does not mean that it is the norm.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 11:00

The idea that women think all men like them is such patriarchal bollox

ISNT · 19/11/2010 11:00

I always find it interesting to read your input though. I just can't agree that the differences in perception are to do with many of us being past-it old duffers.

Sakura · 19/11/2010 11:05

Yes, I like your posts snowflake. They're fascinating. I just don't think you are representative of women in general

LeninGrad · 19/11/2010 11:13

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Sakura · 19/11/2010 11:18

I agree with all of your last post Lenin. Especially this:
"And I would need to know that anyone participating is doing so purely for fun, and then it becomes too real which I wouldn't like either."

It'd be like reading someone's diary.

LeninGrad · 19/11/2010 11:18

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SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 19/11/2010 12:40

Why are some of you so determined to get your jollies for free? I really don't see why it's so awful that a (non-coerced) performer should be paid for performing. Again, the analogy with music stands up: people who love playing music will enjoy playing music alone, for themselves, with friends but also when they put on a performance for others, they have every right to expect to be paid. And 'performance' sex is not necessarily (not very often) the same as sex people have in private, alone or partnered. Again, nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. If you don't want to watch, you don't have to.
But I do actually consider the idea that it's somehow morally superior to expect someone to put on a performance for you and not be paid, than to pay them, actually quite unethical.

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LeninGrad · 19/11/2010 12:56

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Sakura · 19/11/2010 13:05

The fact that women are poorer is a MASSIVE part of this, feminism aside. Think of all the money women pay out so they can look beautiful. The beauty industry is enormous: more money gets spent on beauty than on education in the U.S
Add to that, the pay gap, some women are SAHMs... you have to factor in that the porn industry is catered to the ruling class i.e men, who have the resources to be so extravagant as to spend money on porn/prostitution (as opposed to on children's clothes and food, for example)

So apart from the reasons Lenin mentioned, maybe the majority of women are just too stuck in real life, the real lifeness of being a woman...

SparklingExplosionGoldBrass · 19/11/2010 14:26

Sakura: but women are not all poor, plenty of women in the developed world have money to spend on music, DVDs, books, Twilight posters, calendars of David Beckham/Johnny Depp/WHoever with his shirt off - eg treats for themselves that are not about improving their own appearance.

WHile I agree with you that many women are very short of resources, there is no moral superiority in being poor or, if not so poor, in disdaining any form of frivolity or entertainment. The horsehair-tampon school of lefty feminism that seems to insist that All Fun Is Bad unless it involves lentils and fingerpainting with menstrual blood is one of the factors that does put a lot of feminists off 'feminism'.

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