Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Protect our daughters (and sons)- a "toolkit "

85 replies

Thandeka · 08/11/2010 10:47

Following on from this thread about "small" sexual assualts. I realised to my horror that most women I know have experienced sexual bullying. I have a 9month old daughter. I don't want her to experience the things I have but I also am very worried that things are actually getting worse in our increasingly sexualised culture. And it's not just girls who are the victims of sexual bullying it's boys too. And both can be the perpetrators.

I work in education and currently am writing a resource for schools around sexual bullying compiling all the fab resources from NSPCC, Womankind, Brook etc.

But am thinking maybe we need a support pack for parents around this too- sort of a toolkit of ideas for how to address this with our kids to try and protect them as much as possible from this (from both being victims and perpetrators).

Am just musing really but wondered if more experienced parents of older children might want to share ideas on how they try to protect their kids from sexual bullying.

I'll start (although not a parent of an older kid I work with teenagers!): I really like to share the NSPCC/Womankind definition of Sexual Bullying here and discuss with the kids:

The NSPCC working definition of Sexual Bullying
(adapted from the definition provided by WOMANKIND Worldwide)
NSPCC Registered charity numbers 216401 and SC037717
Any bullying behaviour, whether physical or non-physical, that is based on a person?s
sexuality or gender. It is when sexuality or gender is used as a weapon by boys or girls
towards other boys or girls ? although it is more commonly directed at girls. It can be
carried out to a person?s face, behind their back or through the use of technology.
For example:
? Teasing or putting someone down because of:

  • their sex life (e.g. because they haven?t had sex or if they?ve had sex
with a number of people)
  • their sexuality (e.g. making fun of someone for being homosexual)
  • their body (e.g. the size of their breasts, bottom or muscles)
? Using words that refer to someone?s sexuality in a derogatory way (like calling something ?gay? to mean that it is not very good) ? Using sexual words to put someone down (like calling someone ?slut? or ?bitch?) ? Making threats or jokes about serious and frightening subjects like rape ? Spreading rumours about someone?s sexuality and sex life ? including graffiti, texts and msn ? Touching parts of someone?s body that they don?t want to be touched ? Putting pressure on someone to act in a sexual way
OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 08/11/2010 15:21

Sorry if that seems OT. What I'm saying is that sexual bullying can and does take place within relationships as well as outside them. Girls being treated like this need the validation that it's not a "private matter" if it's your boyfriend sexually bullying you (you're a lesbian or you would want to fuck me etc).

dittany · 08/11/2010 15:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tabouleh · 08/11/2010 15:25

Elephants - you and me need to go hang out on a teen forum I reckon and "role-model" some assertive/feminist behaviour? Grin

Actually are there good websites for children/teens on this topic?

tabouleh · 08/11/2010 15:28

Childline stuff about sex

tabouleh · 08/11/2010 15:30

Like it is website on sex - linked from Childline - surely this page on sex should mention something about rape and sexual assault etc. Sad

booyhoo · 08/11/2010 15:33

i think getting the idea embedded in both boys and girls that just because someone does have lots of sex or is promiscuous, doesn't mean tehy are fair game for anyone to shout abuse or grope them.

i saw a very upsetting status in fb yesterday. my sister has just gone to australia with my cousin and his girlfriend. a friend who is already out there said they will show them around and even show them where all the prostitutes were. my cousins girlfriend replied that she couldn't wait to shout abuse at them. Sad

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 08/11/2010 15:38

dittany - ok, not "this isn't real". Rather why this is aimed at men, rather than women, analysis of how it focusses on men's pleasure at the expense of women's indifference or pain. It's like media studies really. Look at who it's aimed at, and how that influences its content.

booyhoo · 08/11/2010 15:40

tabouleh, i also agree with naming the behaviour i.e; "please don't sexually assault me". it leaves no margin for error, no confusion. that if you continue with this behaviour it is sexual assault and you will face charges.

thank you OP for this thread, i think it is a great idea and is challenging some thibngs i hadn't even considered before. having two young boys, i really do appreciate this.

Thandeka · 08/11/2010 15:45

Some fab responses thankyou so much!

Am doing most of this stuff for schools but I thought I wanted to add a bit for schools to share with parents.

So far from this thread I have got (all in rough and needs editing!):

Challenge gender stereotypes (Comments such as "Boys will just be boys" and "Don't be a big girl's blouse" etc are unacceptable. Likewise avoid hormonal excuses "couldn't stop" -testosterone, "grumpy-PMT").

Define rape, abuse definitions of consent and the laws relating to these (I will type something up in next post)

Support your child unconditionally if they report.

Teach your child respect, personal space, boundaries and how to say(shout, scream) No.

Share stories from victims of sexual bullying to raise empathy.

Explore emotional peer pressure bullying "if you loved me you would"

Advice on who to turn to (for boys and girls and for your DC to help their friends)

Brainstorm ways of being assertive with your teen "don't sexually assault me", Shouting "fire" rather than "rape" if attacked as more people likely to come and help.

For boys specifically- teach them sex is not a right and teach them they will be under considerable pressure to commit what is actually sexual assault (patting a girl on the bum etc).- discuss the legal implications of this. Support them to avoid media that can increase sexual violence- porn, nuts grand theft auto etc. Teach them No means No.

For girls specifically-
teach them sex won't get them love. Teach them No means No. Teach them to critically evaluate the objectification of women in the media.

Any more?

OP posts:
scurryfunge · 08/11/2010 15:48

Linked to the law -consequences of conviction for offenders could be included.

Thandeka · 08/11/2010 15:51

The law says:
Rape is when a man uses his penis to penetrate the vagina, anus or mouth of another person without their consent. Both men and women can be raped. The maximum sentence for rape is life imprisonment.

assualt by penetration is when a man or a women penetrates another person's vagina or anus with another part of their body, or with objects without the consent of the person. The victim can be male or female. The maximum sentence for assault by penetration is life imprisonment.

sexual assault is when a man or a woman touchs another person, male or female in a sexual way without that person's consent. The maximum sentence for sexual assault is 10 years imprisonment.

Consent
A person consents if he or she agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. Sexual Offences Act 2003

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 08/11/2010 15:52

"Teach your child respect, personal space, boundaries" WRT to themself and others .

Not sure about the "no means no" thing. This needs to be in there, but some people are too shocked/scared/worried to say "no" out loud. Better to teach that if there is an doubt in their mind that the other person is happy and involved, it is wrong to press on with what you're doing. Signs someone is unhappy for instance: 1) not reciprocating touching/kissing 2) being "frozen" 3) moving themselves away from you 4) removing your hand etc from their body 5) looking unhappy/in pain/upset 6) saying out loud that they are unhappy with the situation, e.g. "no","stop" or "I don't like it".

dittany · 08/11/2010 15:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dinosaur · 08/11/2010 15:55

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Thandeka · 08/11/2010 15:56

in fact some of this stuff would be great for teachers too!

OP posts:
booyhoo · 08/11/2010 15:58

asking your children/teens if they have ever been aware of sexual assault taking place (to a friend/to themselves/witnessing it happening to a stranger) getting them to verbalise what they saw and to label it as sexual assault.

SnoozyLucy · 08/11/2010 16:31

Something I've been thinking about for a while is the way we try and battle sexual pressure/coercion but then turn straight round and bow to other types of pressure/coercion, maybe showing double standards and not demonstrating how to be assertive. That's not to advocate assertiveness awareness only in case a dd/ds is a victim but also in case they're ever tempted to become a perpetrator, they've seen how to work a situation out another way without the need to grab control.

For instance the 'be polite/be obedient' to older people/people in suits/mothers with babies/your boss/your partner etc is fine to teach kids but surely if they know when to draw the line about 'non-sexual' problems then those skills can possibly translate to sexual assault too. Ie, if your friend is pressuring you to do something whether it be to look after their kids or to sleep with your girlfriend it's ok to say no and if they press harder you talk to them/end the friendship if needs be.

Since thinking about this I've ended a couple of friendships and had quite a few 'avoidable' rows with my parents/siblings because I realised how many everyday things I got guilt-tripped into doing which weren't drastically upsetting me but were showing dd 'that's how you get what you want and the other person won't stop you'.

One very recent example of this was dd and I were going down an escalator at a Tube station and because dd had just had an ear infection she was feeling quite wobbly and wanted to stand next to me, holding my hand and the rail, blocking people from zipping past us. One very smart older 'gentleman' came behind her and even though I apologised when we didn't move he started to take her hand off the rail so he could push past. It would have been easy for me to apologise and move dd to one side to 'be polite' but (as I was stressed anyway) I said in a very loud voice (and a 'talking to a 3-year old' voice I hadn't intended) "NO! We don't touch people without their permission! Take your hand OFF my daughter and keep it to yourself!" (I'll admit to not being the most eloquent). It was only a long while afterwards I realised how that message could translate to later life and I hope it does.

Oops, long message but basically I hope the 'war' on coercion/assault covers everything, not only rape.

tabouleh · 08/11/2010 16:49

Thandeka - how about something on breastfeeding - inspired by this thread post today at 16:02.

The breast's primary function = breastfeeding. Explain that we are in a formula feeding culture and give the info on the new laws about ensuring people can't be told to stop BF etc.

earwicga · 08/11/2010 16:53

Isn't the basic thing just to bring up children from young to use informed consent regarding theirs and other people's bodies?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 10/11/2010 20:14

How's it going OP?

pickledsiblings · 11/11/2010 14:56

earwicga, that on its own would not be enough. A child could give consent to an adult to inappropriately touch them.

I have told my DC that adults know that it is illegal to touch a child in an inappropriate way.

A scenario I have used is swimming lessons and the fact that I have to sign a form to give consent to the teacher to 'touch' their bodies. I have then talked about the scenario where the same teacher comes into the changing rooms and 'touches' them (I used the scenario of the teacher smacking DD on her bare bottom and saying what a lovely peachy bottom she has). DD has talked though her response to this - 'yes, well I'll keep it to myself, thank you very much'. She is 9 and quite a bright girl but she didn't see the need to take the situation any further by telling anyone else about the incident. I stressed to her that it is very important to tell someone (me) about any such things because that individual had broken the law. I then went on to talk about what if 'random family member' touched her inappropriately. She said 'but what if I don't mind?'. I then reinforced that they were breaking the law and so she should mind Shock. Of course she was talking about her friend playing with her hair without first asking permission Blush.

pickledsiblings · 11/11/2010 14:59

Oops, I forgot my point OP.

I think 'scenarios' are a good way to handle this. And multiple choice quizzes about what the correct thing to do is.

Good luck with your toolkit, I think it is a great idea.

HerBeatitude · 11/11/2010 22:34

Re no means no - I increasingly think that this is quite a dangerous slogan, as it puts the onus on girls and women to say no, when we are actually brought up in a culture which socialises us never to say no, straight out. We're taught to say "I'd rather not..." "If you don't mind" "do you think we could" "do you want to" etc. - we suggest and try to lead, hoping that others will take us up on our suggestions, anything but come right out and state our wishes.

So I think there should be much more emphasis on "yes means yes" - and that talks to the boys more than the girls - is she saying yes? Is she wanting you? Is she showing you she's wanting you? Is she arching herself towards you, is she kissing you back, are her arms around you, is she pressing herslef against you, is she caressing your hair, neck, back, bum? If she isn't, what is she doing? Is she trying to pull away from you? Is she still and frozen? Is she saying and doing nothing? Does she seem detached? Does she seem as if she's not really connecting with you? ARE YOU SURE SHE WANTS YOU TO DO THE THINGS YOU ARE DOING? And if you're not - STOP doing them. Check with her if she's happy - not in a coercive, forceful way, giving her no choice but to say "it's OK" - in a way that gives her the opportunity to ACTIVELY show you that she wants you, not just that she doesn't know how to tell you she doesn't want you, without hurting your feelings, upsetting you or making you angry.

It's about making the boys feel responsible for any coercion or force that might take place, not put that responsibility onto the girls. Because they are more likely to be rape/ sexual assault perpetrators and girls are more likely to be rape/ sexual assault victims. So both sides need to understand very clearly, where lies the responsibility for ensuring that rape or sexual assault does't happen - with the most likely perpetrators.

HerBeatitude · 11/11/2010 23:07

Oh NO NO NO

That likeitis site, talks about the hymen breaking when penetration takes place.

How do we let them know about the hymen being a patriarchal invention when it's really the vaginal corona

camaleon · 11/11/2010 23:18

HerBeatitude...
Had no idea about this... 37 years of ignorance about my own body. I am not alone, am I?