"I'm lucky that I don't have to work"

[AnnieLobeseder]

I was having a discussion on Facebook today about bread machines and cleaners with some women, most of whom I don't know since they're 'friends of friends'.

One woman, who seems to be older than me, maybe late 40s, early 50s, said, "I hand-bake my bread and don't need a cleaner, but then I'm lucky that I don't have to work."

So, this made me want to reply that technically I don't have to either, but I choose to for many reasons including my sanity and the fact that I love my job. But since I don't know her I decided it wasn't the time for an arugument!

But now I'm wondering...

1. Is there a general assumption that women only work when they have to in the older generation? Or perhaps in our generation too? Do people still really believe a women should stay home unless there's a pressing financial need?

2. Am I seeing sexism where there isn't any; perhaps she thinks that no-one, male or female would work if they didn't absolutely have to, because she's never had a fulfilling job?

Any thoughts?

Ali - that's fantastic that you had your own income before you stopped working, but not every woman is as fortunate.

Yes, of course he could run off with the secretary, and yes, of course he could do the decent thing and look after your children. However, maybe he won't and maybe you'll have to look to your own resources and try and get back into work - not at all easy these days. Again, it comes down to not relying solely on one person for your livelihood or lifestyle - eggs in one basket scenario. We do that in other walks of our life, why not this one?

Off out shopping (with my money ) with DD now - I'll spare you all the dubious benefits of any more opinions

Ali - that sounds very sensible! I wish more women planned and secured themselves that way. If a family is saving money because one partner is staying home, some of that money should be put away safely for the more vulnerable partner

Nancy - it's a fair point you make, I guess the answer is to find a middle point where you get to both live the life you want and also prepare for the future. The same applies to pensions and savings.... you need to put enough away that you won't starve in your old age, but not so much that you starve now. Life is all about balance.

Xenia - you would probably count me as one of the women who made a poor career choice, life sciences pay notoriously badly when you compare it to qualifications and experience. I have a masters degree, am working towards a PhD and still earn half what DH does with his bachelors. But I wouldn't be happy in any other career, so again, it's about balance and compromise.

I had friends at uni who were studying accountancy purely to earn lots of money. Which is all well and good, but personally, I couldn't do something I hated for 8 (and probably more) hours a day just to live it up on the weekends and holidays.

Everyone needs to find the balance between personal satisfaction and financial security that suits them best.

We all know we could be very happy on very low incomes. I'm sure that's a given for most of us. The things I enjoy are reading and being with the family and walking and lots of things which cost absolutely nothing and I'm not materialistic but I did as a teenager scoot off to the library and get books out called what people earn. No one at home was giong on about that. I just wanted to have the information so I would know what careers meant I earned what money.

I could probably have been a singer but I kept that as a hobby and it's been a lovely hobby I suppose in part because it is hard to live on that.

What I do hope with our own children is that all women do give them the information to make choices. Most young people are idealistic and also have not had the life epxerience to know that XYZ job isn't wonderful pay just because you get a merc or free clothes and that ABC career means never buying your own house or going skiing or paying for school fees or whatever and DEF career means a better chance of that. Then they can go off and take their own career decisions but hopefully with some basic knowledge like that so that as women they can support themselves for the rest of their lives.

Maisiethemorningsidecat Sat 02-Oct-10 09:33:23
Posie - you get your dh to change the bed because you consider yourself unable to because of your lack of height. Even my DD of about 4' 8" is capable of changing a duvet cover or pulling a chair over to a high cupboard. I think a 'can do' attitude is more liberating than sitting back and handing over to someone else something which you are perfectly capable of doing yourself. Being a feminist surely means more than abdicating responsibility under the guise of 'choice'?

I can do my beds, but in my equal home we like to share chores and that means my DH changes the duvet....your comment was rude and confrontational and pretty wrong.

I'm wondering which women on this thread who claim financial independence actually have it. I wonder if it means still selling a home, reducing outgoings should their husbands bugger off.

SGM well if it's about pensions then that is something that can be planned for now, you don't need to be working to have your partner pay into a pension for you, ensure he pays into a pension which is transferrable to you on his death or ensures there is adequate life insurance in place.

That is an issue of proper financial planning not of going out to work or not.

lenin yes of course it is household income - I actually used the phrase I did because I thought if I left it at "pay into a pension" someone would come back with the response well how are you going to do that if you don't have an income!

Regardless of whether you work or SAH there will always be those who firmly believe that income is earned and entitled to be kept or distributed by the individual and those who firmly believe what is earned ought to be pooled and shared equally.

I am firmly in the latter camp - what my DH earns is ours. We are a family and we both contribute in different ways.

No Lenin you are right about it not being him paying my pension, and that isn't how we see it - bad turn of phrase

I am always horrified when women save up for maternity leave so that they can still put the same amount into the bills etc, especially when it then often transpires that the DH/DP is still spending the same amount on hobbies/clothes/cars as they always have.

If this lady is 50 she probably thinks like most of my friends - that she has had a career and brough her children up and is now lucky enough to be able to do what she wants. Sadly I'll have to work to 65 but a lot of my friends now work part time o;r have given up and they tend to be very happy and fulfilled people who keep chickens, go on lots of holidays and have lovely gardens, nothing wrong with that.

I think the problem is that our government and businesses are unwilling to put in place proper child friendly policies such as those in Sweden, Germany etc.

Hoe about my girls knowing that if they work at a career when the time comes for them to have a family they will have five year career break and then opportunity to return at the same level.

How about allowing parents to work flexibly, condensing 5 days into 4 - I know some public sector workers who do this.

How about paying national insurance contributions for SAHP during their career break? (DP pays mine)

How about the chance to return part time?

All these things are offered by some firms and some public sector bodies - but so many of my friends have been refused flexible working meaning that they are putting young children in care from 8am to 6pm, with a bus ride home and no chance to do homework.

Other friends' husbands have been denied paternity leave. Many friends have to rely on family and, yes SAHPs to care for their children on public holidays, or to take them to school and back.

To me this is what feminism is about - collective campaigning to make life better and more equitable for all women and children.

By the way, sorry about my first posts, was drowning my sorrows and this hit a nerve.

I completely agree CC .To me feminism is all about choice if someone wants to stay at home great and i support their choice ,so many differing family set ups its def a balance of what works for you .If someone wants to keep their skills up and continue their career after dcs surely it is in the country's best interests to provide free good quality childcare and encourage employers to be more flexible.It would be interesting to know statistics of women that would like to work ,but cant afford to because they dont get help with working tax credits re childcare or dont know about the details re working pt they might get childcare costs paid and actually be better off.Surely the country invested in a generation of women providing a good education and then arent helping them to get back into the workplace if they choose to, thats just bonkers!
It also promotes mysogyny and ignorance in the workplace, this cycle truly needs broken.
SGM i dont have a pension ,any advice ? Prob got another 25 yrs to pay into it ,do i just phone the bank for advice?

Completely ignorant on this matter so apologies if anyone choked on their tea because i dont have a pension ,i am going to get it sorted ,but any tips are gratefully accepted .

If you love your work you don't need to retire if you pick your business carefully but for most people on average incomes it pays to have some kind of pension provision.

CommanderCool - why is your DP paying your NI contributions?
If you are at home with small children then you are given credit to go towards your basic state pension here

being able to choose not to work is 'lucky' or 'fortunate' if you prefer that word.

where as a SAHM or a retiree or at any other stage of life it is normal for those who are not working out of personal choice to acknowledge that this is a fortunate position.

i do not think that it implies that there are not those who do choose to work even though they may not have to.

Time is marching on though and a pension is something that needs sorting ,divorce is imminent and it does wake you up to a lot of hard realities.Nice to have the choice again in my 60's of whether i need to work or choose to work and what hours i do,the thought of being fit enough to still be in business in my seventies is wonderful.Im loving this thread all about freedom of choice ,its good to know how others juggle the whole life after dcs scenario and it is good to be inspired ,i may choose to work but i also make a damn good elderflower cordial and thinking of having a breadmachine on my Santa list, i agree it is all a balance.

Thanks SGM will google my options,wonder if i can put more in one month and less another if things are tight?thanks again for bringing this to my attention.Have never worked in a job that this was part of the package but no excuse ,should have looked into it b4.On the brightside at least X wont get half my pension .