Feminism chat thread

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

I think I just bring social class and race into the issue too much and some posters (not just Dittany ) think I am undermining the feminist cause. Or maybe that is just my perception?

Just thought maybe you're her.

I would appreciate you bringing those things in because as a white middle class woman I can see that my viewpoint is narrow.

I suppose people can get arsey if they suspect that someone is trying to put another problem ahead of the female one IYSWIM.

I think a socialist feminist perspective would be enormously useful.

As is Claig's conservative one.

And even Xenia's berserk eighties go-get-'em one.

Another request here for explanation of what radical feminism is, mumsnet branch.

Most people in RL consider me quite radical (is it even possible to be quite radical?) but I'm well aware I'm not. Perhaps I ought to add that I find this forum quite alarming - but have much appreciated your welcomes! - whereas I've actually walked out of any feminist groups I've dared to attend in RL, with one exception.

So what is radical feminism? How radical are the regulars here?

Umm, thank you.

I've been given notice of redundancy

I am looking for a new job and channelling xenia as much as poss. She gave me a great cheerleading session once about not letting anyone keep you down and you can do it if you work and try

I think she is a bit fab actually even when she is coming out with some of her more bananas stuff

Oh well when I get my at risk lettter (probably mid march) I'll get the link from you SQ

Damn, SQ! I'm sorry to hear that. Don't know your story - will you get a decent payoff? Most of my redundancies funded rather lovely holidays, but you do need to know what cards you've got in your hand for later.

Thanks for the rad fem replies ... er, so I am radical, then? Bugger me!!!

Engelbert, the only one I enjoyed was a group of travel writers. It's pretty impossible to travel, as a woman, without becoming a practical feminist if you weren't before. Shouty women quoting feminist authors didn't cut it for me, though.

No no payoff.

Sorry to hear that you may be in the same boat HerB.

I work for a 3rd sector organisation and they are having to get rid of about 50% of staff, same as the other organisations I have spoken to. Wonder who's going to run dave's big society

It will be fine though as I said I'm channelling xenia so will be on 6 figures before long and own my own island. Oh yes and have 4 (?) children (not)

I'm going to be a bit radically anti-radical here

My recent crash-course on contemporary feminism gave me the impression, amongst other impressions, that political feminist ideals have become strongly aligned with old-fashioned communist ideals. Flat power structures, the negation of ownership, etc. Whilst I tend emotionally towards those ideals, they've been throughly tested in multiple circumstances and they're incompatible with human nature.

My interest in psychology stemmed from my political thinking, not the other way around. Imposing 'ideals' on human beings doesn't work; we only adopt ideals that satisfy the gamut of human interests. Without writing a 1,000-page essay, this is why I welcome the term 'practical feminism'.

My wider politics, should anyone care, are "conscientious capitalist". In my time - the 70s and early 80s - this was mainstream in the UK. Nowadays, though, my ideas are well left of centre.

I make no apologies for holding to what used to be considered ordinary British politics, nor for the fact that my feminism is 1980s feminism. If new ideas look like old ideas to me, so be it; it's a generation thing.

I do, however [takes deep breath] think more political activists should get off their backsides and actually share life with some of the people they claim to care about. Like all ageing lefties, I have very little sympathy with those who sit in comfy rooms, opening another bottle while they discuss the predicament of less comfortable people.

I am so going to regret this post.

SQ - it's 5!

I think loads of people are all in the same boat at the moment, had a meeting with someone this morning who got his at risk letter last week.

I'm fatalistic, if it happens it happens. It sounds like you're dealing with it very well.

But AG why the assumption that everyone on here are aging lefty wine drinkers?

To my great joy, lots of the women posting in this section are much younger than me. And because we generally talk feminism, we don't talk about what other de-privileged groups we may be part of (disabled, poor, BME, gay etc.)

Again, it's this assumption which lots of people have about MN as a whole, that it's a bunch of boden clad middle classes, when it's a mixture.

Am off to watch Jo Brand's progamme about crying now

Tical wrote - "Thing is - not all feminists are, can be , ever will be or, indeed, should have to be feminist theorists or academics."

I agree, but I've never had the feeling that this feminist section is the preserve of only feminist theorists or academics. There is a whole spectrum of knowledge and experience of feminism on display. I don't think it takes much theoretical knowledge of feminism to make valuable contributions.

The amount of knowledge about feminist theory, that a person wants to learn or is able to take in, will obviously vary with personal circumstances. However, I think someone with only a basic knowledge of the main feminist principles can make a huge contribution to the feminism threads on Mumsnet. For example, reading one book e.g. "The Equality Illusion" or "Reclaiming the F Word" will cover all the basics of feminism for the newcomer. One of those books will supply a feminist with enough useful theory to last a lifetime. It's not as if feminism beginners are being asked to memorise and recite the entire contents of Encyclopedia Britannica, is it?

I think you might be overestimating how much feminist literature quite a few of the regular posters have actually read. Even the more "dominant" or prolific posters tend to structure their arguments using only a relatively small number of feminist ideas.