Feminism chat thread

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

God almighty, I can't believe some of the attitudes on display in that thread. Hideous. Yours was one of the few voices of reason, Ingrid. I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you btw :(

Ingrid, what a depressing thread.

Have posted on that other thread, I can never stay away from them.

What I find odd is when people say "this is insulting to women who have been properly raped" when in reality women who have been raped don't go around getting insulted at other people's experiences.

Sorry haven't been on this chat thread for a while so hello I just wanted to post that. Ingrid I hope you are OK.

I was very shocked at the suggestions by women that inviting an alone man into your house when you are alone can only mean one thing!

I especially liked the posts which stated that because the OP used the excuse that the guy was in a relationship, that that meant she was really up for it.

Truly horrible thread. That poor woman. To have to deal with it (and that prick). I don't understand why people want to put the onus on the woman to say No when the law supports the fact that the man must gain consent. And why they are so scared to call it what it is? Why should she have to bear any responsibility for his behaviour?

SAF - I really appreciated your stuff on the religion thread, I didn't say anything because it had all been said so well but before I got to your posts I was going to go on there and point out how painfully unhelpful it is to be so patronisingly repetitive of the "it's not the church, it's you" stuff. (They don't say it in those words, but that is what they are saying: "you need to see it in a different way...." = "you are at fault, twist your mind harder and you will see the light"). I got quite upset on that thread actually and so I did appreciate the abusive relationship metaphor.

Thankyou, very much, all of you who have posted on it too - and for your kind comments here.

I knew you would be able to understand what was so wrong over there, and sorry to have barged in so rudely to your chat thread, not having posted on it before.

But what a lovely welcome.

Dittany, I don't know much about rape or how it all stands in general terms but I was trying to think into my own mind and what I'd experienced, because I felt so kindred with the OP and wanted to analyse in a macro sense why I had felt bad and what had happened to make me allow the violation.

It has been really interesting. I'm glad that it resonates with others, because that helps validate it for me.

I'm annoyed with some of the blokes too - not all of them - but there are some clear cases of misogyny and it just is so to have to dredge through.

I thought that your posts were really good Ingrid. They told the truth about how women in difficult situations often don't react as they are "supposed" to, and that it is not the woman's fault.

BTW all I'm going to namechange to an older name, I'm a bit tired of this one

Will come back in a mo so that you all know who I am.

Boo!

Thankyou.

It is very hard to get through the barrage of defensiveness on that thread isn't it.

where on earth does it come from!

SardineQueen, I am pleased you have changed your name as I was always bothered by the acronym aspect of your other name...was it one, or not?

Hello Dittany! I didn't expect anyone to remember "me"!

Yes it was an acronym but I realised that people were reading it as "isn't" which is a funny name to be posting under and not "me" IYKWIM!

What was it an acronym of?

Ooh goodness I'm so confused about all these namechanges. So sardinequeen is (nt) who she is. Who is Rhadegunde?

Smells - I think she's so not telling what her name was before :o

Weren't you I'm So Not Telling, a while ago, SardineQueen/ISNT?

I am currently feeling very bouyant having had my FB-debating brother over here this afternoon. We had a fantastic debate where I definitely managed to convince him that there is a need for feminism. We are still locking horns on two points, though, which I need to work on understanding the arguments for.

1. He thinks that feminism is too excluding and it should be humanism (not an abnormal response, but I don't know the response well enough to feed it back to him.

2. He still maintains that men are very different from women. I'm ordering Delusions of Gender this evening and he's agreed to read it after I have before our next debate!

It was very good practice, I can tell you, to debate with someone who cares about me and won't flounce off hating me if we disagree!

I bet it was!

My response to the feminism/humanism thing, would be that of course improving the lot of all people is an aim we can all support, but there are specific issues facing women (i.e. the entire history of discrimination) that mean that women's rights need to be singled out and pushed forward in order to even things out.

I did say that, Elephants, but he kept saying that 'feminism' sounded like we only cared about making women equal and not about making everyone equal.

He's crazy about the chimps thing. Keeps coming back to how different men and women are and just won't accept that there are plenty of women who like driving fast and taking risks and plenty of men who don't like doing those things, but he reckons the science is in his favour on that one.

He did utter the immortal line 'I'm not against gays - some of my best friends are gay'!

Rhadegunde was SGM Elephants.

Flamingo - feminism is more inclusive than most "isms" such as race/class etc as it actually involves 50% of the population. For example organisations actively combatting racism are concerned for the rights of minority groups of people (so less people quantitatively). Could that be used as an argument?

Oh and can I just join the SAF love-in. I love your anthropological posts. In fact they were one of the things that brought me to the feminist section. You were de-bunking myths about cavemen/women and really opened my eyes.