Article in the Independent today about "honour killings" around the world

[ISNT]

Very good article, extremely upsetting though obviously, it's highlighted on teh front page of the Independent and a big special about it inside, apparently they are going to do a series. Good to see something like this on teh front of a daily paper.

here

and one woman's story here

Also anotehr charity for our list - the Jordanian Women's Union.

[ISNT]

I think that people should be free to post what they think TBH appletrees. The interesting thing about your argument with sakura, on this thread and I read on another thread, is that I can completely see and sympathise with both your points. Which to me says there must be a middle ground between the two stances IYSWIM. I can also understand posie's sentiments, although so unpleasantly expressed, there is an element of outrage and discgust at these crimes which triggers a deep feeling of replusion and a desire to push the people commiting them away as being "other". I think her reaction is quite normal TBH, although not terribly constructive.

[Appletrees]

(awards UN peace prize)

[Sakura]

Appletrees, you do my head in, but I'd defend you to the death against a non/anti-feminist.

A bit like Iran siding with Iraq when the US invaded, even though they had that godawful war...

[Sakura]

"I think that people should be free to post what they think TBH appletrees. "

Totally agree with this ISNT. Generally it's on the feminist section that people like putting constraints on the conversations

[EdgarAllInPink]

I got that (it wasn't just about Islamic people)from the article, but it is right at the bottom, a quick scan-read would miss that.

[AnnieLobeseder]

[ISNT]

But annie, how would you have liked this thread to have gone?

I really can't control what other people post - is it the case that we should avoid posting on controversial or difficult subjects in case the conversation gets too heated?

What do you think the solution is?

[Sakura]

Yes, go to Special Needs Annie. Everyone's really polite there, or so I've heard.

[ISNT]

I'm interested though. People keep complaining that we are doing this feministing stuff wrong, I am interested to know what the solution is.

[SweetGrapes]

[Sakura]

Sorry, sweetgrapes, was that at me? I didn'T mean the people with special needs children are impolite . Sorry if that's how it came accross.
I meant that I've noticed there has been lots of things going on on MN recently connected to the SN threads. I have no idea what because I don'T post on SN, but there was a poster who left a disablist comment that was left up etc. So what I meant was, that the feminist topic is targeted as being shouty quite unecessarily, because there are lots of scandals going on all over MN.

[Sakura]

Come to think about it, maybe Annie goes on all the other topics, like AIBU and tells everyone that they're shouty. WHo knows? There's a "manshape" thread going on right now where a thread has been started about another mumsnetter. Bad form, I say, and more than a little shouty. NOt sure which topic it's under. Check active convos.
There are more than a few bunfights going on right now.

[SweetGrapes]

yes, it was for you. Apology accepted.
Am still a bit sick from all those sen/other vile threads on aibu and have just figured out how to hide the whole damn section.
Had expected things to calm down once schools start again.

Sorry for the hijack. As you were....

Have been following the thread with interest - didn't post as didn't have anything to add really. The original articles are pretty sickening. Am from a similar part of the world though where it's not frequent but isn't unknown either and even then do not know what the solution is....

[SweetGrapes]

Yup. Was very disappointed to run into the manshape thread today. I thought I had done away with those threads by hiding aibu.

[Sakura]

There are 4 answers:

1. do nothing, and allow the women to revolt themselves, a grass-roots revolution
   Pros: it will be long-lasting, there will be no animosity towards the west and it will take place on the women's terms
   Cons: it'll take forever
   
   
2. Intervene a la Posie. A machiavellian type "the end justifies the means".
   Pros: the targeted problems will dissappear quickly
   Cons: increase of hatred towards western imperialists, women siding with their men and culture like Iranian women did when they wanted the Americans out of Iran, culture being diluted for capitalist/imperialistic gains...
   
   
3. INtervene a la Appletree. A bit more sensitive than Posie but - and this is the problem I have with Apples- it is the same mind-set as Posie, but dressed up to be something it's not. I find this approach more patronizing than Posie's honesty. And Apples talked a lot on another thread about a US-led campaign, which to me smacks of paving the way for imperialism and capitalism. Western-led intervention is just that, no matter how "sensitive" you try to be.
   
   
4. Intervene on the women's terms. COntact the women themselves. Almost every Asian country has female MPs. Some have female prime ministers. Every country in the world has an educated female middle-class, who must be working on the problems. If you want to help them, contact the women's organizations in teh countries you are interested in. TheBossofMe gave lots of advice to Appletrees about aid work and about how important it was not to tread on women's toes. This is the "middle ground" that ISNT was looking for.

[Appletrees]

Sakura will you stop thinking you know what I think. You don't, and you don't speak for me, and you don't read my posts. Please, can you just stop making things up.