The Chalet School

[ShellacB]

There seem to be plenty of old Chalet School Threads, but I can't find a current one.

In the middle of a re read. I have just finished the Tyrolean and Herefordshire ones. I loved them!

I do remember the Swiss books not being quite of the same quality, so not sure whether to read them all.

Could anyone recommend the best Swiss books if I was to skim through?

Did we ever see any examples of the "mothering" Mme Lepattre apparently gave Corney?

None whatsoever. It was a bit pointless really. I mean, if EBD had used Corney's grief and heartbreak as a plotline for her going off the rails or something, it would have made sense. But it came out of nowhere and never led to anything.

There's been a lot of talk about Joey, Mary Lou and Len. I think it's fair to say that Joey and Mary Lou were charismatic girls. Joey made friends easily - remember how Simone used to get jealous and frustrated because she wanted Joey all to herself, but Joey kept making friends with the new girls. It probably helped that Joey was so good at languages. I think she was already fluent in French and German when she started school (did we ever find out why?) and also went to the trouble of learning some Italian. She would have been able to converse easily with most of the pupils. It must have been a lot harder for the other pupils to communicate with each other, if they only spoke one language fluently. Their knowledge of the other languages wouldn't have extended much beyond being able to state their names, nationality, age and interests etc. And on that note, how did the Norwegian girls cope? Anyway, Joey was reluctant to be head girl, but I think she was a bit of a Peter Pan character - she never wanted to grow up and wasn't interested in men or marriage until the 'Exile' book. That said, she agreed to be head girl (albeit reluctantly) and by all accounts, was a very popular head girl.

Same with Mary Lou - she was already friends with Clem and Tony Barras, even before she joined the school. She was the leader of a big group of girls at school. She was assigned a special role (was she head of the Middles or something?) - there was a lot of kite flying about how she would inevitably be head girl at some stage, so the staff wanted to get her accustomed to the responsibility. She didn't irritate me as much as she did some of you. However, I did find myself rolling my eyes whenever a prefect (or staff member) would inevitably parrot, "It's not cheek, it's just Mary Lou".

I didn't feel Len was as convincing in the main character role. Her character wasn't as well developed as the other two. Perhaps it's because the books weren't as well written overall at that stage. And I'm inclined to agree with @ShellacB that EBD left it a little late to bring her to the forefront.

Anyway, I'll continue with my re-read.

Absolutely, despite not being a huge Mary Lou fan I would agree that both were very charismatic. Although I found Joey to be much more charismatic than Mary Lou, who I did find to be slightly pious in some of her later books.

I think part of the problem with Mary Lou wasn't even Mary Lou the character, it was the way she was treated by other characters as being special 'our one and only Mary Lou' etc. It just became a bit much. Similarly to the way early Robin was shoved down our throats as being special and an angel child and this was more the other characters' reaction to her than Robin herself.

I have to say, in fairness, that we weren't constantly told how brilliant and special Jo was when she was a school girl. In fact, her flaws were quite often pointed out to us, but we knew that she was ultimately good and kind at heart and still liked her anyway. Mary Lou was treated in the end like a very special person that everyone should aspire to and couldn't be criticised, even by a new teacher.

Perhaps Joey always had a more central reason for being involved in everything in her school days, her sister owned the school, she was the first pupil etc. It was harder to understand why Mary Lou should have been poking her nose into things to do with the staff etc. Especially after she left the school.

I would agree that Len wasn't overly charismatic, although I did like her. Essentially the three triplets together would have made one good lead character and perhaps that was the original idea, but then EBD really left it too late to focus on any of them as a heroine or even as a combined heroine. We never really got to know Con that well at all.

Can we talk about Biddy?

I can cope with her far better as an (older) adult but cannot bear EBD's rendition of the Oirish accent (what were her editors thinking of?)

Also that bit where she tells Miss Slater (? someone) just after leaving school that she can improve her languages by staying in a pension and would she like some addresses? Slappable!

Yes it is incredibly irritating.

Also even in later books her accent is referred to as being terribly irish etc as if that is a negative thing. She is frequently reminded that she should be speaking proper English etc.

I find it hard to believe that that was considered acceptable even then. See also the highland twins. The Chalet School had and have many Irish and Scottish readers. How was that ever considered to be acceptable?

@Taytocrisps - I agree with you on the “It’s not cheek - it’s just Mary-Lou” thing - I don’t understand why no-one sat her down and told her that she no before she speaks, and moderate the ‘cheek’.

As a Scottish reader, it didn't occur to me not to just let the stereotyping float by (just as I was an academic and possibly disagreeably pedantic little girl but wasn't offended by Eustacia) as something completely detached from what I was seeing every day in real life. I also knew that not all Austrian girls were obedient little housewives in the making with immaculate blonde hair.

I think the repeated narration re Biddy sounding 'terribly Irish' and her being scolded by the adults for speaking with her natural accent annoyed me more than Biddy's unrealistic 'brogue' which didn't sound like anyone's accent.

In reality it is highly unlikely that Biddy would have had an Irish accent anyway. She lived in Tyrol from the age of around six. Her Irish mother had died before that and they had been living abroad. I don't believe that she had been in Ireland since she was a small baby. She then went to the Chalet School for years where we are told that any natural accent she might have had left was supressed.

It is most highly that by her mid teens she would have been speaking with renounced pronunciation.

EMBD's accents really annoy me along with the way the babies talk (particularly Felix and Felicity at the moment) but Biddy sounds like a caricature. She has spent most of her life with people who put huge emphasis on correct English aside from her time in University. She may have retained a soft accent but her sentence structure is ridiculous.

I totally agree that Biddy is most unlikely to have had more than the occasional note of Irishness in her voice at the start of the narrative and she would have lost all trace of it very quickly. Having her talk like a cartoon leprechaun seems ridiculous now, though I didn't question it when I read the books as a child.

I suppose we should count our blessings that EB-D didn't feel the need to provide a phonetic rendition of Ros Lilley and Joan Baker speaking with Hampshire accents.

Going down a tiny rabbit hole here, does anyone remember the book in which Len asks Joey to request Miss Annersley that she not be made a prefect yet? I remember Joey told her that she had done quite a bit of unofficial leading recently and it is likely that she will be asked to do some officially. Len states she would like one more term of just being in form. Joey reflects that it was Len’s hard work and intelligence that has taken her so far up the school for her age and promises to put in a word to Miss Annersley. I think Jack Lambert is mentioned so it must be after ‘A leader In the Chalet School’. It has been bugging me for a while!

I tried to read *Redheads at the Chalet School" again recently. Once more, I got to the point where Val goes walkabout and is kidnapped and then I started skimming. I enjoyed the gossipy updates about the Russell girls and Joey's chat about family size, finances and even her again threatening to produce quads. (Who would be threatened or even care all that much?) But the gangster shenanigans? Is it me or is it just not riveting? Is it because I'm no longer the wide-eyed target audience? I went back and re-read similar kidnap-type stories in the early books and my only conclusion is the feeble thought that "Redheads" just went on too long.

Redheads is brilliant!

Hilariously unlikely (right up there with Prof Richardson flying in a saceshop to the moon) and downright silly.

Think EBD was trying to be modern and trendy at that point.

As an Irish person, it didn't bother me particularly. EBD was just reflecting the attitudes of the time. An Irish accent wouldn't have been looked upon favourably by the mistresses (and the wealthy parents who funded the school via payment of their daughters' school fees). That's the reality. Jo sums it up - ‘She’d have to get rid of a good deal of her brogue, then,’ said Jo, with the first grin they had seen since the affair had come to light. ‘My sister would never hear of the Robin learning Irish-English."

Tbf, people from Kerry do have very strong accents, although Biddy's is obviously wildly exaggerated. I'm assuming 'Wirra" is meant to be "A Mhuire" (Mary - Our Lady).

Even here on MN, I've seen posters sneer at Irish expressions or colloquialisms. They fail to understand that we speak Hiberno-English, which isn't quite the same as the English spoken in the UK.

The mistresses were equally critical of Flora and Fiona's accent.

Tbh, given Biddy's very difficult childhood, it's a miracle she wasn't mute from trauma. Her story goes like this:-

• Her soldier father died and her mother moved to Austria to resume her post as a maid for a wealthy Anglo-Irish lady.

• The employer died and Biddy's mother married the chauffeur.

• Biddy's mother died in childbirth.

• The chauffeur (Biddy's stepfather) died.

• The chauffeur's sister came and claimed the baby (Biddy's sister) but couldn't take Biddy, because she already had ten children and couldn't afford another child. In any case, the baby was her brother's child, but Biddy wasn't related to her. So she made arrangements to have Biddy placed in an orphanage.

• Biddy ran away.

• She was 'rescued' by a group of school children.

• It was decided that she would live at Le Petit Chalet (the Chalet School), but attend a local village school. I'm assuming the staff and children at the school all spoke German. It's not clear if Biddy herself spoke German at this point. If she lived in a village, she may well have mixed with the local village kids and picked up German. If the house was in a remote spot, her socialising might have been confined to the household staff.

• At a later stage, she was removed from the village school because she wasn't receiving a good education. She then attended the Chalet School as a pupil.

That's a lot of ACEs for a small child.

Even if Biddy had retained traces of her accent when she left school, I would think she'd have moderated it further when she arrived at Oxford. Which begs the question, who paid her fees at Oxford?

Anyway, I'm sure EBD didn't give it too much thought. She just thought it would be dramatic and romantic to have the pupils rescue a wild Irish orphan girl.

Hollywood has a lot to answer for, when it comes to Irish accents. All of that "Top o' the morning to you" stuff. Not to mention Tom Cruise's infamous line in 'Far and Away' - "You're a corker Shannon". I still cringe all these years later. EBD is by no means the worst offender.

Actually, that would have made a good plot for a later book - Biddy's sister turns up and the pair are re-united.

@taytocrisps don't forget that she was hidden in the boatshed too! Fed on scraps the middles brought to her!

Absolutely agree. It's a Hollywood idea of Irish accents that has a lot to answer for.

I have to say with the exception of the terrible accents, any portrayal EBD makes of Irish, Scottish or Welsh people is usually favourable. Biddy for example is a great character with the exception of the accent, kind and clever. The McDonalds are the same. So I don't believe that EBD had any personal prejudice against the Irish, Scottish or Welsh.

You are correct in that she was reflecting what was, sadly, the attitudes of the time she was writing in.

She was actually pushing against the standards of her time wasn't she -the idea of "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish". She had the Indian child in Lavender Laughs (although she was only mentioned in one book) and she portrayed Biddy as exceptionally intelligent with her Oxford degree and her mastery of languages. She just used the language that was prevalent at the time - although it is really annoying now.

How else could writers at the time (because EBD wasn't the only one) indicate a Scottish or Irish accent to readers who might never have heard one? Not everyone had a wireless, no-one had television and many of her readers might never have travelled far beyond their own home areas.

It tickled me that Manley, the murderer, realising he'd got the wrong girl to subject to a ruthless plan of turning her into a drug addict, conscientiously put her onto the right train with a valid ticket.

Would it not have been sufficient to say spoke with an Irish or Scottish accent and leave it at that? Or even not say it at all. Biddy would most likely not have had one as we have said. The McDonald twins we know are Scottish and would presume spoke with Scottish accents.

We are told what the German and French girls say in English without their accents always being phonetically spelled out. The different regional English accents never need to be spelled either.

Most Irish readers would be able to say that the way Biddy's dialect is spelled out is not actually a Kerry accent anyway.

I do agree with the poster who says that in other ways she was far ahead of the time. Few other books had characters from the continent etc and of different religions integrating in the way EBD did. So she was brilliant for that. Also far ahead in terms of understanding the political situation in Germany etc.

Would it not have been sufficient to say spoke with an Irish or Scottish accent and leave it at that?

But if you didn't know what an Irish or Scottish accent sounded like, you'd be none the wiser. With the French and German speaking girls, she drops French or German words or phrases in to the dialogue sometimes, to show the difference.

I think it's unfair to single EBD out for criticism when she was only doing the same as her contemporaries, and less heavy handedly. Here's a bit of O Douglas (Anna Buchan):

Easie turned to inspect something in the oven, and Mrs. Dickson seized the opportunity to ask, ‘What like’s the new wife?’
Easie closed the oven door, and standing with her hands on her sides, said solemnly:
‘A muckle blackaveesed wumman. A great hoose end o’ a wife. A sulky-lookin’ cratur. Oh, I tell ye ma hert was sair for thae bairns, but Miss Kirsty says I’m no’ to say that. She says Mrs. Crawford is a fine body, and that she’ll be rale guid to them, and mebbe she’s richt, but I canna help feelin’ vexed for Mr. Crawford—sic a blythe fellay to get sic a dour-lookin’ wife!’

And a great deal more of the same throughout the book. D.E. Stevenson did it too, to a lesser extent. She and Anna Buchan were both Scottish, and evidently thought it was OK.

The plot of Redheads is bonkers, but I like Flavia. If the series had continued, I like to think she'd have been an efficient and reliable Second Prefect when Jack Lambert inevitably became Head Girl.

Oh no, I don't think that anyone is singling EBD out.

It is very much accepted that it was, unfortunately, a common attitude of the time. Most of us appreciate that EBD was actually very far ahead of her peers and contemporaries in terms of representation of acceptance of different nationalities and religions and not bowing to stereotypes.

That doesn't make it any less jarring for (some) Irish or Scottish readers now to hear an accent being described as terribly or awfully Irish or to hear someone be corrected for using their native accent, or to read an overly exaggerated leprechaun accent used.

Of course we have to accept that is was written within a different time period

Dorita Fairlie Bruce mostly confines herself to using some Scottish vocabulary (press; messages) rather than trying to present syntax, though Tibbie (I think) in the Springdale books is regarded as being very Glasgow, and Lintie, child of a negligent absent middle-class father being raised by an impoverished village dressmaker has to be reminded to keep to her 'correct' accent.

I don't see why anything beyond mentioning people's nationality is needed - I presume there was a range of English accents at the school.

Anyhow, the things people were saying about Reunion made me doubt I'd ever read it, and I couldn't find a copy on my CS shelves so I've been reading it from Faded Page. Talk about subjecting a girl to a ruthless plan of turning her into a drug addict, Hilary's haste to press tranquillisers onto a total stranger is bizarre - Matron drugging girls at the school is one thing, but someone who just happens to be on the same train? An aspirin maybe, but actual tranqs?

When the plan for Grizel to go to New Zealand with Deira the man snatcher was first mooted was D's invalid daughter mentioned?

Oh - and I was pleased to get definitive written proof that yes, we are supposed to pronounce it Grizelle - I always hoped so but wasn't sure.

EBD did alright by Biddy. She went to Oxford, spent a few years working in Australia as a kind of companion/teacher and was then offered a post as history mistress at the Chalet School. She seems to have been a popular teacher and had a good relationship with her colleagues. Iirc, she married a doctor and settled down to keep a house and start a family. Not a bad trajectory for an orphan girl.

In 'Carola Storms the CS', Biddy met young Carola at a guest-house and struck up a friendship with her. Cousin Maud deemed her to be of good character and permitted the friendship.

I don't see much evidence of anti-Irish prejudice on EBD's part. I think the worst you could accuse her of is racial stereotyping - Biddy is a wild, rebellious young girl, prone to emotional outbursts. But at least she didn't give her red hair.

On the other hand, EBD made a nasty comment about a servant in 'The New House at the Chalet School' - "It ought to be easy enough to manage, for Gretchen was a regular peasant—heavy, slow, awkward in her movements, and not too bright." It's odd, because EBD seems to have a lot of sympathy for the poor people of the district. There are lots of references to how a long winter will cause hardship for the peasants. All of the Christmas plays highlight how Joseph was a humble carpenter and Jesus was born in a stable etc. etc. But occasionally we get glimpses of EBD's own class prejudices.

@ShellacB I'm looking forward to a re-read of 'Reunion'. It's a long time since I read it, but I think there's a nice bit of reminiscing and we get to catch up on the lives of some former mistresses and pupils.

A bit bogged down with 'Barbara' at the minute. It's not really grabbing me.