War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Ah, lovely cat, Cludgie!

I shouldn't play Wordle before my morning coffee:)

I’m a wordle fan too, it’s getting to be a bit of a problem since I’ve added quordle and worldle to the routine!

Whatever you do, don't fall down the rabbit hole of semantle!

Tara I think you may have put an end to my W&P attempt, and possibly the day job too! Do you manage to solve them?

I looked at Semantle before, but I think it's for Smart People:)
I do Wordle and Dordle and Wordle in French.

Chapter 20
Pierre furiously orders Anatole to leave Moscow and never speak about his affair with Natasha. He gives Anatole money for the road and the next day, Anatole leaves for St. Petersburg.

Cornishblues you do improve with practice!

Here's the thread - I post under LoudParrot www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4559461-semantle-14

Oh dear - I don’t have a cat or any pets. I’ll get my coat…..

I do do Wordle though and got yesterday’s in 3 - luckily both my starting words included all the letters so it was then easy to work out the final word.

I haven’t tried any of the other similar games, I waste enough time on the internet as it is!

Glad that Anatole is out the picture although I do wonder what will happen once Andrey finally makes it back to town. Will he accept Natasha's refusal or will he try to win her back? I want him to tell her to take a hike but he was pretty smitten so will be interesting....

I think his moral code and personality won't let him question her decision but his pride will be wounded. So much drama!

Neither do I. It has never really occurred to me.

I'm a bit behind but this section with Natasha and Anatole is just perfectly written.

Catching up with everyone’s posts. Gosh I love this thread so much!

I thought Sonya was great in these chapters, and it’s a really interesting point about the less privileged female companions of literary heroines having more wisdom than the heroines themselves. Am also in complete agreement about the Bullingdon club, and the bear!

Desdemona, you were very eloquent explaining why Natasha was primed to fall for Anatole.

I’m glad that bastard is out of the picture and that Pierre managed NOT to undertake a duel this time.

I’m also a cat-lover, and yes, my cats always have literary names, usually from Greek myth (how original of me, ha). I really wanted to name my daughter Sappho if I had a daughter but DH pointed out that we already had a cat named Sappho and that it wouldn't be very fair to the cat 😁. Fortunately I had two boys instead so the argument was truncated. The boys ended up with rather ordinary names not from Greek myth; I guess I'm not as creative when it comes to male names.

I am trying to post a not-very-flattering photo of my current darling, but my laptop connection is so slow, I can't do it, ugh. It’s a staged photo as well with War and Peace plonked down next to her, but I do a lot of reading in bed with her splayed out next to me.

And I’m a Wordle fan! I do Wordle, French wordle, Latin wordle and quordle every morning -- that list is in order of declining success rate. Semantle and Worldle = too bloody hard.

Ok hope this works

Another gorgeous cat!

Thanks Tarahumara, perhaps your cat and mine were separated at birth 😁Here's a better photo. I do love black cats

Chapter 21
After finding out that Anatole is married, Natasha tries to poison herself with arsenic, but quickly wishes she didn’t. Fortunately, she gets medical attention in time. Pierre tries to quell rumors about the attempted elopement, which have spread around Moscow. When Prince Andrei returns from Europe, Pierre visits him and tries to convince him to make a second proposal to Natasha. However, Andrei cannot forgive his former fiancée and refuses to entertain this idea. He asks Pierre to return the letters Natasha wrote him.

Black cats are gorgeous 😍

Your copy of our book is wonderful, cassandre (goes without saying that your cat is gorgeous!) What edition is that?

I was pleased to see Andrey back in town. I can't make head nor tails of the timings as it feels like if only he'd come back a couple of weeks earlier, none of the previous stuff would've happened. But I'm also not sure if it was that recent..

I don't like the fact Marya is so happy about it all - I understand why the old Count is chuffed but why is Marya so pleased? Felt a bit for Pierre - he really married into a bit of a mess... and he doesn't even really want to be married!

My hypothetical pets are called Alexei (full name Count Alexei Vronsky of Anna Karenina), he is a dog so that I can shout his name like Anna when he fell off a horse.

My other imaginary pet is called Daphne (du Maurier) and she may be a fish, cat, rabbit, dog.

I’m up to date now. These chapters were so compelling and brilliant. It was really interesting to see all the goings on w Anna trying to limit the damage and thwarting the whole thing. I would have loved Anatole to have been caught and brought into her drawing room.

Great names, StColumbo, I think you should get out and get a pet, as you are obviously well-prepared!😁

SanFranBear, it's the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation (Vintage Russian Classics). I like the cover too. The book is big but surprisingly light to hold.

www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians/dp/178487194X/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=178487194X&psc=1

I started off with the Briggs translation and liked his lively style, but moved to Pevear and Volonkhonsky because the French dialogue is left in the text in their edition. I found their translation a little literal at first but have warmed to it now.

Arsenic, Natasha, really?! I know you feel things very deeply but even so...

I didn't like Andrei in this chapter. Clearly he now thinks of Natasha as soiled goods. He grinned coldly, spitefully, unpleasantly, like his father. That reminds me of what Viking was saying about how much he would end up deviating from his toxic father. It's not looking good if you ask me.

END OF SECTION CATCH-UP KLAXON

Today we reach not just the end of a section but the end of Book 2!! Day off tomorrow.

Wow, this last section has been so dramatic, I think we're starting to reap the benefits of the long, slow introduction of the characters.

When we finished Book 1, someone posted a really interesting and non-spoiler-ish recap exploring the themes and characterisation. Thank you again to whoever did that and would it be possible to find the same for this book?

I loved this section! Pierre really came into his own didn’t he? When he confronted Anatole with ‘do as you please with my wife, but keep your hands off Natasha’ my heart sang! Disappointed with Andrei and with Marya’s gloatingly pious response but equally feel they couldn’t have reacted any other way, Tolstoy has made us understand them so well.

Chapter 22
Pierre returns the letters and comforts the distraught Natasha, who begs for Andrei’s forgiveness although she knows they will never be together now. Satisfied that he was able to resist his own desire for Natasha and treat her with platonic tenderness, Pierre goes home in a somber but happy mood. On his way, he sees the Great Comet of 1811.

Gradesaver's analysis of this section:

Analysis
Tolstoy narrows the plot’s scope in this section, focusing almost exclusively on Natasha’s dalliance with Anatole Kuragin. However, the first and last chapters deal with Pierre’s moral crisis and its resolution, which suggests that Natasha’s brush with disaster isn’t the truly important part of this section. Rather, Natasha’s problems give Pierre an opportunity to prove to himself that he has the potential to be a moral man. Pierre’s lifestyle offers plenty of opportunities for gluttony and carousing, but few opportunities to be virtuous. By refusing to take advantage of Natasha’s vulnerable emotional state, Pierre denies himself something he wants for perhaps the first time in his life, and puts morality ahead of his individual desires.
Through Pierre, Anatole, and Dolokhov, Tolstoy shows that morality is not just about making good decisions. He also suggests that circumstances make it easier for some people to be moral than others. He explicitly describes Anatole as having good intentions; he is someone who simply does not understand the repercussions that his lifestyle has on other people. Because he is so good-natured and of such high birth, people indulge him and do not call him out on bad behavior. Anatole, then, does not understand that he is ruining Natasha’s life – he believes that eloping with her is morally neutral, and thus his skewed sense of morality is as much the fault of bystanders as it is his own.
Speaking of bystanders, Dolokhov plays an equally important role in this section’s moral calculus. Dolokhov’s actions seem contradictory. On the one hand, he facilitates the elopement and goes out of his way to ensure that Anatole and Natasha won’t be caught. He even shows Anatole how to put on Natasha’s coat quickly so she won’t be tempted to go back and get her own coat (and in doing so, have second thoughts). However, he also genuinely tries to discourage his friend from going through with the elopement. He points out the danger of retaliation from the Rostovs, as well as the likelihood that they will be bankrupt after a year or so. In other words, he understands the moral transgression that Anatole is committing, but does not endeavor actively to stop it. Although Dolokhov has the right idea, his belief that young men should do exactly as they want supersedes his moral (or practical) sensibilities.
The fact that Dolokhov plays such an ancillary role in the whole affair – he could easily have been left out by Tolstoy – suggests that he plays a crucial role in the section thematically. Through his involvement, Tolstoy demonstrates that recognizing the moral thing to do isn’t enough; people must actively intervene when they see others making wrong decisions. Dolokhov’s behavior contrasts with that of Marya Dmitrievna. Although she has no personal stake in the Rostovs’ fortunes, she takes charge and prevents the elopement in order to save Natasha and her family from humiliation and possible violence.
Natasha grows up significantly in this section. Her simple joys in life no longer dominate her; she has confronted the cruelty and pettiness of society, and is hurt all the worse for having never given them much credence before. Her attraction to Andrei is ironically ridiculous; we realize how little they have in common, and how poorly their meetings go, and yet she is desperate for him. Sensing the chance to be an adult is exciting to her, but in indulging in those emotions, she discovers their complications and is so unfit to counter those emotions that she attempts suicide, a moral lapse for anyone but especially for a character so fond of life thus far in the novel. Through Natasha's fall in this section does Tolstoy make his most harsh denunciations about the cruelty that humans are capable of in "peace" as well as "war."
The end of this section includes one of the novel’s most famous scenes, in which Pierre sees the Great Comet of 1811. This comet was a real astronomical occurrence; it was extremely bright and was visible for 260 days in 1811 and early 1812 (Comet Primer). When Tolstoy mentions that the comet portended the end of the world, he is referring to the popular belief that the comet was a bad omen. In retrospect, many people believed that the comet was a sign of Napoleonn’s invasion of Russia (Olson et al. 138). In War and Peacece^, it becomes a symbol of the happiness and inner peace that Pierre finds after dedicating himself to platonic and selfless love for Natasha. It further serves as something of a metaphor for Tolstoy's expansive ambition - he wishes to relate both the movements of the heavens and the inner workings of individuals, and in Pierre's reflections, we get one of many indications of how every element of life is in interplay with other elements.

Wow - end of book 2 and almost halfway through the book. I've really enjoyed this latest section and kept wanting to read ahead!

I'm glad that Natasha and Andrei didn't work out - I thought they were a terrible match - him too old and jaded, her too young and inexperienced to marry (although in 1812 I appreciate that most young, aristocratic women were the same). I can't help finding Pierre earnest, naive and dull. I know he's supposed to be the good guy, but he's just this tedious lumbering bulk to me!

Anyway, we've had a lot of peace, so I'm thinking it's time for a bit more war.