War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thank you! That's interesting! Briggs uses 'dilatory' instead :)

Mine uses ‘procrastinators’!

These little differences are so interesting, alongside the actual story. If we do this again next year I am fully behind another translation. (I know Proust and Hugo have already been suggested).

This must be some of the studied wordplay by Tolstoy that is lost from the Russian. Thank you for sharing the page @IsFuzzyBeagMise, the Briggs translation is a lot easier to read, and you can see phrases that are more natural in English “and that’s all there is to him”. I have been finding mine clunky to read, but then really enjoy things like cunctator and the footnote.

On one of the Ukraine threads, there was discussion about the meaning of Родина, and someone said their Russian friend said (true MN style) that there is no short translation, one word conveys so much. A bit like Arabic I guess.

“On one of the Ukraine threads, there was discussion about the meaning of Родина, and someone said their Russian friend said (true MN style) that there is no short translation, one word conveys so much.”

I haven’t seen this particular discussion, can’t keep up with all the Ukraine threads atm. So forgive me if this has already been explained. In Russian this word means Motherland - a place you were born. Interestingly, in Ukrainian it means family. Same spelling in Cyrillic but different pronunciations.

Thank you all again for the words of support ❤️. My family are safe for now. They were able out of Kyiv and made it safely to the Western border where they are going to stay for now.

You're welcome @BakeOffRewatch. I found it interesting to read your version, so I thought I would share Brigg's one in return!

I think it's more like an interpretation than a translation in some ways. There are many colloquialisms and it must be at a remove from the original text particularly when it comes to direct speech, I think. As I don't know Russian, I will never be any the wiser.

I didn't check out any other versions. I liked the idea of the text being straightforward and relatively easy to read, because I wasn't sure if I would like the book and I wanted to stay the course. It turns out that I do :)

'Procrastinators' is a good translation Chessie and definitely more approachable than the c-word in BakeOff's (!) though it doesn't have the same historical flavour.

That’s so good to hear about your family @Mb76. Always appreciate your input on things too, I didn’t know that it was a word in Ukrainian too. What I read on the other thread was about it being an ideological concept for Putin.

@Mb76

Thank you all again for the words of support ❤️. My family are safe for now. They were able out of Kyiv and made it safely to the Western border where they are going to stay for now.

I'm really glad to hear that @Mb76. What a relief. Thinking of you, your family, friends and the people of Ukraine, hoping and praying for a resolution to this atrocity.

That must be a huge relief @Mb76.

That’s the wonderful thing about language isn’t it. I was writing a presentation about ‘Home’ the other day and in the language I was working in I could think of at least 4 words that mean ‘home’ that need explanation in English and they come with not just meaning but different emotional attachments. I often think emotionally in my second language because it just seems to have a more wider vocabulary for that sort of thing to draw on.

That's good news Mb76, it must be heartbreaking to see what's happening in Ukraine but the fact that your family have made it to safety must be a huge relief.

So glad to hear that @Mb7

From Gradesaver:
Chapter 12
Weyrother and Kutuzov hold a war council to review the plan of attack. All of the generals are tired and even Kutuzov falls asleep while Weyrother reads his plan aloud. A few officers, including Langeronn_ and Prince Andrei, raise objections, but the allies nevertheless move forward with Weyrother’s plan. As he gets ready for bed, Prince Andrei is nervous about the battle, but he decides to look forward to it as a chance for glory, even though he may die.

I'm still reading along! Like everyone else I'm devastated by the plight of Ukraine. And I'm so glad your family is safe for now, Mb76.

I'm a uni lecturer in French and a number of my students are doing a joint degree in French and Russian (some are currently doing their year abroad in Russia). They are quite distraught and so are the Russian tutors I work with. It's just a very difficult time all round.

Today's chapter is interesting with Weyrother hell bent on attacking Napoleon even though wiser heads know it's not a good idea. And Prince Andrei disagrees with Weyrother, but his primary motivation is said to be fame and glory. A really unflattering picture of the war.

This is quite an obvious point, but it strikes me how different the current crisis is to Tolstoy's war, because of the power of social media. Today, words and images can be communicated instantaneously and spread across the world, and that must make such a difference. I have been very moved by Zelenskyy's speeches from Ukraine and also by images of brave Russians protesting Putin, in St Petersburg and elsewhere. In Tolstoy's day, information would have been conveyed to a wider public so much more slowly.

@ChannelLightVessel

Poor Marya indeed! Tolstoy’s really laying bare her lack of agency. She wants to get married (which is her only ‘career’ option anyway), but has no power to go out and find a man who will love and respect her. She lacks the vital currency of beauty - her character is clearly of no account - and her only other currency is actual currency, which attracts fortunate hunters. Down with the patriarchy! Also the bit about replacing the snow was comical, but it’s not the Prince out there in the cold, no doubt without adequate clothing, doing all the shovelling.

I'm responding to this part of our conversation really late (sorry!) but I just wanted to say that I don't necessarily see Tolstoy as anti-woman. Like ChannelLightVessel I think that Tolstoy is highlighting women's limited agency in a patriarchal world.

Obviously Tolstoy is situated in his own time and isn't always as pro-women as he could be. However, my impression is that his female characters are complex and well-rounded. He is willing to let us get inside their heads, as with Marya who is very virtuous/committed to religion but who also has fantasies and desires of being loved.

Her father's desire for her not to marry seems to me to be quite selfish/narcissistic. He needs to have her around as someone to focus his energies on. But she surely did escape what would have been a wretched marriage with Anatole.

The thing is, most (all?) of Tolstoy's male characters are just as flawed and blind as the women characters are, if not more. Prince Vassily's children, both daughter and sons, seem almost comically self-satisified.

I didn’t understand why there was a southern French general at the Council of War, so looked up Langeron. He was a French soldier and Royalist, who left France after the revolution and served the Austro-Russian army. He was disgraced in the defeat at the Battle of Austerlitz in December 1805 (think we’re in 20th November now?). The chapter calls him a “military author”, is that the same as an “observer” mentioned in the wiki? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alexandre_Andrault_de_Langeron

I didn’t like Andrei’s head space today. Current events certainly put the reading in a harsher light. He wants glory, nationalism, the love of the people, to be well known - desperately, more than anything, at the sacrifice of his wife, sister and father even. This is the head space of men who go to war. Ignoring the other voice in their head that tries to remind them “And death and suffering?”. And believing it’s not their fault they want it, refusing to alter their behaviour under the mask they have no control over it.

I've started a new thread ready for tomorrow's chapter

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/what_were_reading/4492684-War-and-Peace-Readalong-thread-2022-thread-2

Thanks @VikingNorthUtsire. I’ve added the new thread to my watch list. Are you still reading the daily meditations?

Glad to hear your family is safe at least Mb76 It must still be so upsetting for you. Sorry.
Was wondering what the Russian for courage is (I don’t know the Cyrillic alphabet I’m afraid). The Ancient Greek is ‘andreia’, literally ‘manliness’, and I wondered if Andrey’s name had been chosen deliberately. (The Latin equivalent, btw, is ‘virtus’, so virtue is literally a male quality.)

Today's chapter was depressing. A council or war where the leader is asleep, the one reading the plan is a hyped up idiot who won't listen to anyone, one of the generals doesn't turn up and the rest are point scoring. Not like there are thousands of lives dependant on their actions. Lions commanded by donkeys indeed.

Yes it was a stark contrast to the glorification and the feelings of love they inspire in those they lead. Those feelings Rostov has to lay down is his life for them - do they merit it?

I know, hard to believe that there would be so little engagement / such petty politicking

@MamaNewtNewt

Today's chapter was depressing. A council or war where the leader is asleep, the one reading the plan is a hyped up idiot who won't listen to anyone, one of the generals doesn't turn up and the rest are point scoring. Not like there are thousands of lives dependant on their actions. Lions commanded by donkeys indeed.

Well said. I completely agree with yours and BakeOff's and Sadik's posts.