Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

What we're reading

Find your new favourite book or recommend one on our Book forum.

War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

998 replies

VikingNorthUtsire · 05/12/2021 17:26

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

  1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

  • some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
  • there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
  • some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

  1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

  1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
StColumbofNavron · 18/02/2022 19:20

Thackeray though, in spite of his ‘no heroes here’ stance clearly set out to make Amelia and Becky main characters.

Nevertheless, in spite of all my rhetoric I do agree with you all. Let’s hope that the journey brings a little more to their characters.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/02/2022 00:09

Part III Chapter 4
Marya ‘clomps heavily’ into the drawing-room and is immediately dazzled by the beauty of Anatole, she can hardly bear to look at him. Could this vision of loveliness really, truly be her future husband - ‘oh be still my beating heart’ the lucky lady no doubt thinks.
He meanwhile is standing ‘chest out and spine back’ doing this weird thing where he puts his weight on one leg and swings the other foot (I really can’t imagine how this would look anything other than simple minded!)
He’s not ‘quick witted or eloquent’ but what he does have in his corner is a gargantuan amount of self confidence and arrogance! His silence could be construed as shyness or stupidity in a lesser mortal but with Anatole:
“It was clear that he was capable of serenely saying nothing for a very long time. ‘Anybody who finds silence embarrassing can always start talking,’ he seemed to imply, ‘I’m not that way inclined.’”

The three young women of the house are all of a twitter at being in the same orbit as this God like creature.
Lise is rather unflatteringly described as being like ‘an old warhorse..ready to gallop off into yet another flirtation’ where as Mademoiselle Bourienne is imagining Anatole as her Prince Charming who will ‘see her as superior to all those ugly, dowdy, clumsy Russian princesses … fall in love with her and carry her off.’

Tolstoy helpfully informs us that it’s always the case for lonely women, deprived of male company, that they feel they have not been ‘living a real life’ until the appearance of one such as Anatole who will sharpen their ‘thought processes, feelings and powers of observation’ ten fold.
‘It was as if lives spent in darkness had suddenly been flooded with a bright light full of new meaning.’
(If SanFranBear was irritated by Tolstoy’s treatment of women in the last chapter I fear she may have spontaneously combusted today! Down with the patriarchy indeed!)

Perhaps unsurprisingly, of the trio, it is the pretty Mademoiselle Bourienne who has caught Anatole’s eye he hopes that even stuck in this rural wasteland he can have a ‘good time’, she’s ‘easy on the eye’, ‘quite something to look at’, ‘a nice little thing’ and he muses that he certainly wouldn’t be adverse to her living under the same roof as him and Marya when they’re married.
(Just to be clear it’s not generally a good indicator of future marital bliss when the prospective bridegroom is plotting an illicit liaison with the hired help of the prospective bride on their first meeting.)

Meanwhile Bolkonsky is in his room dressing, he is in no hurry to join his irritating guests. He’s ruminating on his feelings for Marya and we see that he actually loves her deeply; ‘for the old Prince life without Princess Marya was unthinkable’ he doubts he could ‘ever bear to part with his daughter and give her to a husband’.
It’s a line of thought he rarely allows himself to linger on because he knows that to do so would reveal the truth ‘and the truth would undermine not just his feelings, but the meaning of his whole life. ‘
Aaaarh…. And just when we see the softer side of this tyrant he stomps into the drawing room sizes up the scene immediately - Anatole flirting with Bourienne, Marya being ignored - and with a few well chosen barbs reduces his poor daughter to tears.
He mercilessly mocks her attempts at beautification, ending by saying ‘she has no need to disfigure herself - she’s ugly enough as it is.’
(It’s a total mystery to me how Magic Eyes Marya can be so lacking in self esteem and confidence 🤷‍♀️)
Prince Bolkonsky engages Anatole in conversation and quickly finds him to be severely lacking in the brains department, but in discussion with Vasily he concedes that the decision of who Marya wishes to marry will ultimately be her own to make.
Bolkonsky will ask Marya outright the next day in the Kuragins presence if she wishes to be wedded to Anatole. ‘Let her get married. I don’t care’ he shrieks with exactly the same depth of feeling, bordering on madness, he displayed when saying goodbye to Andrei before he went off to war.
Vasily tries to sell his sons merits to Bolkonsky; “Anatole is no genius”, he admits, “but he’s a good, honest boy, a fine son and a family man”
Unfortunately, as this paragon of virtue is being praised by his father, Anatole himself is feeling increasingly drawn to the ‘pretty and seductive’ Mademoiselle Bourienne. It’s ‘the kind of animal passion that sometimes swept over him with amazing speed and urged him to indulge in the most reckless and boorish behaviour.’
And as the two wronguns watch poor, trusting, innocent Marya play the clavichord they indulge in a spot of sexually charged footsie under the piano. Anatole and Bourienne daren’t look at each other for fear of giving the game away, and so they turn their excited, lustful eyes, full of ‘joy and longing’ towards Marya. Whilst she, like Sally Fields on Oscar night, thinks ‘you like me, you really like me!’

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 19/02/2022 08:42

Excellent, Desdemona! I really enjoyed that Grin

Thoughts with SanFranBear Grin

StColumbofNavron · 19/02/2022 09:20

Ah, Tolstoy. I relinquish my lame attempts at balance.

Spongebobfrillypants · 19/02/2022 18:39

So far, Part III just reads like a Carry On film to me. Helene is thrusting her bosom into Pierre's face & 6 weeks later he's married her. Princess Marya is having impure thoughts about Anatole while he's having a quick kanoodle with her best friend in the bushes. I can't help hearing Sid James' dirty laugh in my head as I read it!Grin

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/02/2022 18:46

Ooooh Matron 🤣🤣🤣

Mb76 · 19/02/2022 19:06

Really enjoyed your chapter summaries @DesdamonasHandkerchief 😂 you are very talented, love the humour - thanks for cheering me up. I’ve been quiter than I’d like to be here but I really enjoy reading everyone’s posts and different perspectives.

I’m struggling a bit this week with all the shit going on with Russia and Ukraine atm 😞
May I ask, when some references were made to “servants” e.g. old Bolkonsky telling his servant to shovel the snow back up the path. What exactly are these servants called in the English translations? I wonder if there’s an explanation what kind of servants they actually are.

StColumbofNavron · 19/02/2022 19:12

They are referred to as servants, I think that they may have been referred to as serfs when talking about estates (though I might be confusing with other Russian books). That said, I know the serfs weren’t yet emancipated when the book is set so they are actually serfs I guess.

SanFranBear · 19/02/2022 20:10

Well goodness... he doesn't mince his words at how pathetic and desperate women are, does he! Anatole isn't even all that, yet they're all over him.. I despair (hoiks bosum and makes cat-bum mouth!)

I will admit, its making me want to read on after each chapter (restraining myself so far!) but I just want one of these self-satisfied, overbearing, smug old men to be taken down a peg or two. Not going to happen though, is it Sad

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/02/2022 20:44

Thank you Fuzzy and Mb76, I do enjoy doing the summaries and probably spend far too much time on them!
So sorry to hear you're feeling down Mb76, for Europeans the Ukraine/Russia situation is worrying, but more abstract - if you're from the countries concerned I imagine it's all consuming.

MamaNewtNewt · 19/02/2022 21:05

Yes Tolstoy is getting right on my last lady nerve with his condescension towards women now. Maybe his wife should have concentrated less on getting him to remove wedding night scenes on more on getting him to see women as people in their own right.

Also poor Princess M, and Mademoiselle B. Both looking for love in very much the wrong place.

BakeOffRewatch · 19/02/2022 22:24

I haven’t started reading the peace section yet since I finished war but wanted to join in … can you imagine how bad a wedding night scene would be if this is what we get for day to day portrayal of women? Maybe Mrs Tolstoy made him cut it out because it was too much to bear, or she realised it was too ridiculous for her husband to actually publish, rather than prudish reasons!

MamaNewtNewt · 19/02/2022 22:31

@BakeOffRewatch very good point! Dear Lord, Mrs T may have saved us from a misogynistic horror show.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 20/02/2022 00:23

Part III Chapter 5
There’s not much sleep to be had at Bald Hills that night - well except for Anatole that is, who, having stirred up this hornet’s nest, goes out like a light the minute his head touches the pillow. But to be fair it is just another day at the office for this expert philanderer.

Marya meanwhile lies awake, hardly able to believe her good fortune: “‘Is he really going to be my husband, that stranger, that good, handsome man. He is good–that’s the most important thing,’” (Yes love, he’s a real catch! You’re the luckiest girl in the world 🙄)

Mademoiselle Bourienne is strolling around the gardens, presumably in the pitch black, hoping to bump into Anatole. She is by turns hopeful of an illicit meeting with the object of her affection and weepy, thinking of her impending fall from grace.

Lise is also weepy, as well as uncomfortable and fractious, tossing and turning, cursing her heavily pregnant body. She can’t help thinking to herself that in the not so distant past, when she was ‘light and carefree’ it would have been she, and not Bourienne, who would have attracted Anatole’s attention.

Bolkonsky Snr for his part is ‘stamping about and snorting in his anger’. He is infuriated by the insulting behaviour of Anatole; “The insult was all the more hurtful for being levelled not at him but at someone else, his daughter, whom he loved more than himself.”
He’s also disappointed in Marya who has had her head turned so completely by the first young buck that comes courting, has she no pride?

Bolkonsky considers putting Marya straight on what is going on under her nose but ultimately decides that to do so would undermine her self respect, (Which tbh he seems to do constantly anyway for less good reason 🤷‍♀️) and would lose him his cause - ‘to avoid being parted from his daughter’.

Without actually exchanging words Bourienne and Anatole seem to have a perfect understanding of the situation, Anatole will seduce her, on that they are agreed. Their imagined conclusions to the story however are quite different, Bourienne imagines her shocking fall from grace will be swiftly followed by a wedding, Anatole, on the other hand, imagines a convenient ‘bit on the side’ living under the marital roof with himself and his rich, if ugly, bride. Seizing their chance to compare notes the would be lovers meet in the winter garden whilst Marya is having her usual daily meeting with her father.

In his study Bolkonsky is treating Marya with unusual affection and forbearance. He explains that Prince Vasily and Anatole have come to check her out - his ‘beautiful eyes’ as Bolkonsky rather sweetly refers to his daughter - and found Marya to be to their liking. A marriage proposal has been made, whether she accepts it or not is completely up to her. (Probably a very modern concept in that day and age and much to Bolkonsky Snr.’s credit.)

However the affection and forbearance - not to mention the vow not to enlighten his daughter of Anatole’s true nature - don’t last long once Marya starts to dither, and Bolkonsky can sense she is intent on accepting the proposal; “‘Well, that’s splendid then!’ he shouted. ‘He’ll go off with you and your dowry, and take Mademoiselle Bourienne along too. She’ll be his wife, and you …’ The prince stopped. He could see the effect of these words on his daughter. She had lowered her head and was on the verge of tears.”

Marya is completely blindsided, she can’t believe what her father is saying can possibly be true. But the seeds of doubt have been planted, and as she stumbles in ‘a fog’ into the garden who does she come across but her prospective husband and ladies companion in an intimate embrace. On being discovered Bourienne cries out and flees, Anatole on the other hand maintains his composure and styles it out, giving a shrug and a ‘sweet smile’, as he saunters off to his room.
Finally the scales have truly fallen from Marya’s (magic) eyes and when she is called to the drawing room to give her verdict on the proposed marriage she can confidently assert that she does not wish to leave her father (though this is what she wants more than a husband I think) and definitely does not wish to marry.

Vasily is aghast, Bolkonsky delighted, and Anatole …, well actually we aren’t told how Anatole feels, but under the circumstances I’m sure the one thing he doesn’t feel is surprised.

Rather naively Marya firmly believes that by standing aside she leaves the way open for Anatole to marry Bourienne - who, she reasons, he must truly be in love with, and she with him, for them to risk disgrace in this way. If it is a question of money she will ensure Bourienne is elevated in society. (How little she knows of Anatole or his father to think they would be content with the financial scraps from her table!)
Martyr to the end Marya consoles herself with thinking of Mademoiselle Bourienne’s future happiness:
“I’ll be so happy when she is his wife. She is so unhappy now, a stranger, all alone and helpless! Oh Lord, how passionately she must love him to be able to forget herself like that. Who knows, I might have done the same thing!”
You might indeed! There but for the grace of God Marya - a lucky escape I’d say!

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 20/02/2022 10:28

Poor Marya (again). At least she is getting away from that useless lump of manhood.

I quite enjoyed Balkonsky's dismissal of Vassily. 'Well, that's it, my dear fellow. It's been so nice to see you. It's been so nice to see you,' he kept repeating as he embraced Prince Vasily. He couldn't wait to get rid of him! Don't let the door hit you on the way out Grin

The only thing you can say in favour of Balkonsky is that he gave Marya the choice to get married, although this was motivated by his own desire to keep her at home with him.

Thanks Desdemona for your summary. It looks like we are leaving Bald Hills for now.

StColumbofNavron · 20/02/2022 10:32

I really like Marya. She is misguided, for example her desire help Bourienne marry Anatole, but i do think it will have taken a lot to refuse a marriage proposal. She does have the upper hand though, with her father’s ‘support’ and her fortune, but I’m not sure she realises this.

If I ever get a pair of dogs I’m going to call them Anatole and Hippolyte.

SanFranBear · 20/02/2022 11:15

Yet more examples of Tolstoy's contempt for women though, referring to Lise's pregnancy bump as a lump!

I was pleased to see Marya say no though - not sure for the right reasons but she has at least not saddled herself with a husband who would only make her miserable. I can't see Anatole and the beautiful Amelie making a go of it though!

Will be interesting to see how Anatole and Vasily accept the refusal - I can see the elder being very angry, his golden child being refused wouldn't occur to him, and certainly not by someone who is ugly - can you imagine!! I wonder whether Anatole will think over his actions... haha, as if! I do wonder if Marya hadn't stumbled over them, whether she might have accepted...

ChannelLightVessel · 20/02/2022 13:19

Desdemona you’re on fire!
Mb76 it must be so worrying for you Flowers

Stokey · 20/02/2022 22:10

Brilliant summary @DesdamonasHandkerchief. I did feel sorry for poor Marya. Hopefully someone better will turn up later. Quite pleased to see Vassily lose out after his manoeuvrings via Helene's ample bosom earlier in in this part.

BakeOffRewatch · 20/02/2022 22:29

I’m caught up! I found it hard to start again with the chapters being 20min. Have the tooth brushing readers been brushing for that long? Grin

Well now that I’ve read I’m sure I can imagine what the wedding night chapter was like. Probably a lot like when Pierre first notice Hélène’s boobies, all an inner monologue of Pierre and descriptions of Hélène’s body and physicality. A lot of “and he didn’t know why or how but felt it must be so” and probably her ushering things along. It would be crap.

Omg poor Marya! Can’t believe what her dad said in front of the guests about her looks!

I think there is something of Tolstoy’s turn of phrase lost. Like where it says “Marya felt fear, which had never come to her before”, I was like she’s a quiver of nerves and fear the whole time we’ve known her. Or her dad’s intention of “extreme gentleness” in talking to his daughter nk he just plunges in there with implying Mlle Bourienne will be providing the wifely duties. I think of Shakespeare’s layered meanings and humour and I suppose we are losing that. Written slightly differently in English, I can I,aging it would drip with sarcasm and irony.

So who’s writing the fan fic of Pierre and Hélène’s wedding night from HER perspective???

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 20/02/2022 23:37

Volume 1 Part III Chapter 6:
Well, this chapter is a little odd. Most of the action surrounds a perfectly unremarkable letter from Nickolai Rostov to the folks back home.
I would have thought just the receiving of a handwritten letter in times of war would be an occasion for rejoicing, given that it means the writer was still alive and kicking in the not too distant past.
The letter does impart the news that Nikolai has sustained an arm injury in battle but he thoughtfully skates over any pain or misery connected to this and assures them he is completely better.
The big news is the fact that he has been commended for bravery and promoted to an officer, a Cornet in fact. (The fifth grade of commissioned officer in a cavalry troop who carries the colours, and not, sadly, an ice cream treat awarded for good behaviour.)
Surely this is a cause for celebration? (Or are you all looking at me askance here thinking, ‘Who does she think she is?’ Have I in fact - ‘done a Vera’?)
So why is this letter treated with the enthusiasm of an unexploded bomb? The contents of which have to be delivered to the countess with all the diplomacy Anna Mikhaylovna can muster, after first preparing the ground with veiled hints and whispered conversations.
Maybe the injury is a bombshell because the rest of the family feel, like Nikolai himself once did, that ‘the force is strong with this one’ - that he’s surrounded by an invisible force field of love and pampering ensuring he couldn’t possibly come to any harm in battle, not even a minor injury.
But for crying out loud people, this is war, shit happens! He’s still alive, lighten up!

We spend some time with the Rostov children, Petya is becoming war obsessed and bloodthirsty in his imaginings - he’d have killed far more Frenchmen than Nikolai has managed to, “and kept on killing them till they were lying around in heaps.”
Sonia is still starry eyed and love struck she tells Natasha: “‘I have fallen in love with your brother, and whatever happens to him or me I shall never stop loving him for the rest of my life.’”
Natasha conversely can’t even properly remember Boris or what he looks like, when she closes her eyes and tries to conjure up an image of him there is nothing there.
Petya helpfully chimes in that this is because she has been putting it about a bit, emotionally speaking, having fallen in love with both fat Pierre and her Italian singing teacher since Boris left for the war.

After a week of hard graft on ‘rough drafts and fair copies’ the Count and Countess are finally happy with the standard of family missives winging their way back to their darling son, and the not inconsiderable sum of six thousand roubles has been added to the care package. Anna Mikhaylovna has, of course, got special connections and the letters and cash are sent off to Boris, care of The Grand Duke Konstantin’s special messenger, it will then be up to Boris to get the package to Nicolai. Can’t say I’d be too happy about sending all that cash off through such a convoluted chain of delivery - come back Royal Mail Signed For all is forgiven!

Here endeth the ‘gossipy fluff’ for Volume 1 Part III.
Chapters 7 to 19 are back to ‘Carry On Soldier’.

BakeOffRewatch · 21/02/2022 07:59

Today’s chapter was the first time I felt emotional while reading. The countess’s feelings for little baby foetus now at war 20 years later really got me! I can barely handle my 1.5yo starting to talk and say “no” haha

SanFranBear · 21/02/2022 11:06

It did all seem a bit of a storm in a teacup but perhaps letters from the front were so exceptionally rare, they were worth this level of celebration?

I do wonder how on earth Nikolay managed to get promoted given what we've seen? Unless he's managed to do something exceptionally heroic 'off screen' - or maybe so many of his unit were wiped out, they just promoted those who were left? I mean, he ran from the enemy, lost his service weapon by throwing it at the enemy and didn't seem to actually do anything afterwards other than feel sorry for himself (not implying I'd do better but I'm just trying to understand how you get a promotion from that!) All I'll say is that Dolokhov better be almost a General now!!

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 21/02/2022 11:27

This comment was excellent; 'Anna Mikhaylovna soon found out about the letter (nothing escaped her in that house) and stole in silently to see the count.' Forget privacy with her around!

I was also wondering why they were tip-toeing around the countess as it was good news. Presumably she has a delicate disposition and they were afraid of her reaction to Nicolay's injury? It seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill. Vera is quite right! I think they all like a bit of drama! And it takes them a week to write a reply, between rough drafts and the final version. I also questioned the wisdom of sending six thousand roubles via two or more couriers.

I also wondered on what basis Nicolay received his promotion. Perhaps on merit of surviving the battle? Unless there were some heroic actions that we didn't hear about as SanFranBear points out.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 21/02/2022 11:56

Thank you for for those summaries Desdemona
I know they take time to write, but they did brighten up the thread :)