War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I'll hop back in - I read ahead on the War section as I knew this last week was going to be busy. I found War much more readable and interesting than Peace, but I'm hoping that returning to characters we've already met will work better for me.

I'm finding the war chapters well-written and atmospheric - too atmospheric tbh. Quite frightening. Also very confusing!

I haven’t been reading everyday thank you for the mini summaries @IsFuzzyBeagMise, as let me know when to stop.

I thought Bagration’s (always ensure I pronounce it correctly in my head @Mb76!) “all-knowing” demeanour wasn’t because he was bluffing but because it was futile death sentence battle! Kutuzov said as much to Andrei when he insisted he wanted to go.

Having read a bit of peace and a bit of war now, it’ll be interesting to discuss comparisons. I’m thinking of Dolokhov, repellant to Russian society in peace, but in war he’s the one to be revered in that context whilst the officers flee in fear.

You're welcome @BakeOffRewatch!
It was tricky, just focussing on the main points. A good challenge.
I'm glad you found them useful.

The last chapter of this part was pretty heart-wrenching.. I don't remember being so affected by it before.

Both Andrey & Nikolay have had enough, haven't they! You could almost feel the pain coming off the page from Nikolay... the scenes he watched from the campfire though and the 'order to leave the wounded' were so casual and yet quite haunting - war certainly isn't pretty! His remembrances of home were so sad - being surrounded by his loving family. I bet millions of eager young men have thought those exact thoughts as they struggle through.. poor boy!

I liked the way that Andrey stuck up for poor Tushin who came over as just a really nice, compassionate, 'old school' type of officer who genuinely made the difference on the day. Funny to think he was the barefoot captain mentioned on Andrey's initial rounds, sort of portrayed as a bit of a nincompoop (sorry, can't think of a better word - I mean seen as daft and a bit silly). I really liked that he helped Nikolay when noone else would and stayed with him round the fire once they'd stopped for the day/night.

Quite jarring to then go into the tent with the Generals all chowing down on mutton legs!

I’ve found the War more challenging than the Peace but have been carried along by this thread, thanks to everyone who has posted, you’ve all picked up on lots that I’d have missed. I’ve taken the advice on board to let it wash over a bit but enjoyed looking out for the characters we know from the Peace section. I certainly didn’t manage to loop back and read the section twice this time but have been hanging on in there!

It does make me think anew how lucky I’ve been to live in a time without conscription and in a place where, for 2 lifetimes, war has not happened at home. In conflict characters can no more opt out of war than we can opt out of being affected by politics.

I found Nicolai’s noticing his own golden boy attitude and the culture shock of realising that he wasn’t guaranteed a smooth path particularly powerful.

I was going to say something similar SanFranBear, that I was glad to see Andrey speaking up for Tushin, who seems such a decent sort. I also feel they have been through such a lot already (and it's still so early in the book!).

I agree, Cornishblues, it makes you think and appreciate the relative stability of the times we live in. In Ireland, we marked the centenary of the War of Independence last year (1919-21). My home city was extensively burned during one of the conflicts. I'm hoping we won't see an escalation of hostilities in the Ukraine.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and thanks to Mb76 for the illustrations. It enhances the reading experience for sure.

Yes another heart wrenching chapter. I agree that the order to abandon the wounded was brutal, particularly when they're screaming out to be rescued. How many must be thinking why the hell did we sign up for this.

Was I only one who read this bit:
“At the bottom of the hill a pale hussar cadet came up to Tushin, holding one arm in his other hand, begging for a lift.”
As a Pythonesque picture of a hussar holding his disembodied arm in his other hand. It was only when the hussar was identified as our old mucker Nickolai Rostov that I realised his arm was merely injured not ripped off at the shoulder!

I was glad Andrei stood up for Tushin, but didn't really understand why he blanked him once outside, maybe pissed off that he hadn't defended himself.

I wonder if Tushin's first name is Matthew hence 'Matthew's Girl' as the guns pet name.

Thank you for the chapter summaries Fuzzy it really helped me get a handle on what was happening to whom, where and why!

Also Dolokhov is incredibly single minded psychopathic isn't he? He is desperate to rise through the ranks again no matter what mortal danger that puts him in, and given he's being mentioned in the officers tent in dispatches it looks like he'll be rising like the phoenix from the flames.

You're welcome Desdemona!

'... holding one arm in his other hand' oh dear I think your imagination is running away with you! Poor Nikolai, going around begging for a lift. Good suggestion on why the cannon is named 'Matthew's Girl'. I don't think we were told what Tushin's first name is.

I was wondering about Andrey's cold response to Tushin. He also spoke 'coldly and sharply' to a staff officer, so it isn't necessarily personal. I think he is feeling extremely let down by the whole experience. 'He was feeling bitterly disappointed. It was all so strange, so unlike what he had been looking forward to'.

I wonder if Tushin's first name is Matthew hence 'Matthew's Girl' as the guns pet name.
Is that what it means? It's not called that in my version.

As a Pythonesque picture of a hussar holding his disembodied arm in his other hand

I also pictured an actual arm being held but in a rather more gruesome way - I was really moved by this chapter and because of the way the dead, dying and wounded were being treated by and large, pictured some poor man without his arm, staggering round! Like you though, as soon as they mentioned ole Nikolay, I realised it probably wasn't - although it's not made clear exactly what happened, was he hit by bullets when his horse went down?

There's only really been three main characters who we met in peacetime who've reappeared (or may have got people mixed up due to their different names):

• Dolokhov who I agree comes across as quite insane - although can't say I'd want to remain in the standard ranks if I could get promoted to an officer... although not sure if the field officers have any better of a time. Those supporting the commander do although I thought Zherkov's behaviour quite shocking (not passing on the Retreat order, although I doubt I'd have done any better)
• Nikolay: totally out of his depth, his visions of being a military hero completely wiped out through actual experience of first hand fighting and his resulting injury.
• Andrey: disgusted by the whole endeavour, I think his dreams of being a military hero are also wiped out but more from a knowledge of the utter shambles of the command structure as opposed to the realities of the front. He's a very sharp customer though so was well aware of others shortcomings and, not lacking courage himself, is probably highly frustrated. He is definitely his father's son!

Given Nikolai fell off the horse I imagined he had fallen awkwardly. It mentions dislocation (though there was blood but I don’t think it was his was it?) he also was running away from the enemy and could have fallen plus he was dragged wasn’t he as well? Any number or combination could have caused it I think.

I was really engaged by that section, though I am looking forward to wartime peace for a bit. I can’t help myself liking Andrei, even with his flaws.

Reading and pausing after each chapter is working well for me, as I'm not rushing through the war chapters but trying to take them in and understand some of the detail of the battles.

Is anyone else surprised by the age of a few of the high-up soldiers (generals perhaps?) who don't seem fit enough to be fighting but nevertheless are in the thick of the action? My impression of WWI is that those giving the orders stayed well out from danger and certainly were not going over the top themselves.

I've enjoyed the war chapters more than I expected, certainly more than I enjoyed them lat time but am looking forward to getting back to the Peace story.

I know some of the confusion isn't helped by the difficulties of communicating during a battle but the scale of the confusion and lack of cohesion is shocking.

I'm enjoying our re-entry into society.. although not as much as Pierre! He hasn't changed a bit other than becoming ridiculously wealthy and now all doors are open, everyone loves him and looks like he's heading for a very 'suitable' marriage!

I did smile about how Prince Vasily apparently unconsciously schmoozes and influences and gets his own way without even knowing he's doing it! I don't care what Tolstoy himself says, he totally knows what he's doing

Are we back to gossipy fluff? Do you want me to take over chapter summaries Fuzzy?

Here is Part III* Chapter 1:*
So it turns out that Prince Vasily is just a regular kinda guy whose superpower is knowing ‘instinctively and without any forethought’ who to befriend and schmooze for his own benefit.
Well, I don't know about you, but I for one feel pretty bad now for even thinking he was the sort of person who would say to himself; ‘Now that Pierre is a wealthy man, I must hoodwink him into marrying my daughter and lending me the forty thousand I need.’
Thank goodness Tolstoy put me straight on that one!

Pierre meanwhile is being kept busy by his new status as Count Bezukhov, he’s got lots of admin to attend to and everyone is love bombing him. Unsurprisingly he is starting to believe his own publicity. Everyone is so much nicer to him since he became a multi millionaire, and as he always thought of himself as kind hearted and intelligent kinda guy anyway it’s easy to believe the sycophants that surround him.

With only Pierre’s best interests at heart Vasily has found him a non job as ‘gentleman of the bed chamber’ (very Henry VIII) which makes him a state councillor conferring on him the title of ‘your Worship’.
With only his own interests at heart Vasily also ensures, in short order, he gets a ‘little something’ (several thousand roubles) from the estate and that long bodied, short legged Katishe is also granted a generous income (‘throwing the poor Princess a bone to chew on’) to ensure her silence over the unseemly business of the ‘inlaid portfolio’.
Pierre is happy to oblige however, and one has to wonder if Katishe would have been so generous if the boot had been on the other foot.
The youngest, prettiest, moliest sister continues to flirt with Pierre and obviously has a thing for him, (and frankly he should be dragging her down the aisle because she has got to be a better bet than the predatory Hélène.)
Before she can bewitch Pierre with her fetching mole however Vasily sweeps him back to St Petersburg where Pierre is ‘enveloped by the same atmosphere of tenderness and affection’. Vasily insists Pierre stays with the family - all the better for putting Hélène in his line of vision.
Pierre is a little bored though as the other members of The Naughty Boys are all away at war - as is bff fine, upright Andrei, so nights are spent at home with Vasily, his fat wife (so there is a Mrs Vasily after all!) and the gorgeous Hélène.
Pierre however seems initially oddly immune to Hélène’s charms, that is until she gets her tits out at one of Anna Pavlovna’s soirées. Well not literally you understand, but she does thrust forward to ensure her low cut gown is ‘so close to his short-sighted eyes that he could hardly miss [her] vibrant delights’ - that’s one way of describing them.
Suddenly Pierre is obsessed with Hélène picturing her naked and feeling she ‘not only could but must become his wife’. Female readers all over the country bang their heads against the wall at the stupidity of men.

I have to say, Pierre isn't the sharpest tool in the box, is he. I can't help feeling that he needs to marry someone like Hélène who will look after her both of their interests.

Thank you Desdemona! I enjoyed the chapter and the summary

Poor Pierre. He just isn't able for them, the poor man; Hélène or her vibrant delights or high society

Thanks for the summary Desdemona. If read ahead in the war part and may do the same in the shorter chapters.

I felt quite sorry for the naive Pierre surrounded by the predatory Vassily, Anna & Helene.

until she gets her tits out at one of Anna Pavlovna’s soirées

This made me genuinely lol - thanks Desdemona!

I am truly loving and grateful for the Fuzzy and Desdemona tag teaming.

I haven’t read today’s episode yet, but I’m very much looking forward.

I am truly loving and grateful for the Fuzzy and Desdemona tag teaming.

Same same! Thank you so much to you both

And I'm so pleased to be back in society and off the battlefield for awhile.

I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling the Pierre who hung out with prostitutes in Part 1 (if I recall correctly) with the Pierre who is astounded and unmanned to realise that Helene has a naked female body beneath her clothes!

I guess this is the first time he's mentally classified an aristocratic woman as a sex object, and that makes all the difference?

@cassandre I though Pierre's original attitude was less to do with her class and more to do with the fact he's known her since they were children, but it's an interesting point and could definitely be the case.

That said for one who is superficially intelligent, he's an awful idiot and so easily lead. I still think he is good hearted (look at his behaviour with Katische) but Helene and Vasily are going to eat him alive.

I also loved the description of Vasily as an unconscious manipulator, rather than the Machiavellian menace I thought he was.

Oh I'm so glad to be back in Russian society! Those on the war front could learn a think or two about strategy from these aristocrats!