War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

My recollection of the war bits (not spoilery) was that whilst exact descriptions and manoeuvres went over my head, the writing did allow me to imagine the field and get a sense of place. I also think you get a feel for how the characters are feeling/coping.

I think Viking said today is the meet day and I want to say, I’ve loved reading along with you all. Last time I found myself sitting on benches in my local open space envisioning battles and their circumstances. I’m trying to look more critically at Andrei that James Norton depicting him seems to allow. It is witty and I like all the exaggerated language or acts e.g. Count Rostov dancing; Marya’s eyes; Prince Nikolai Bolkonsky.

My only criticism is sometimes I question the choice of words or phrase that Briggs opts for as they sound anachronistic. That said, I don’t know what the original Russian actually says or how it says it so I could be wrong. Very occasionally a sentence will read like it’s dumbed down, but of course this could be entirely wrong.

Wow what a lot of heavy lifting Mary’s eyeballs do!

Poor Lise, I do fear for her being so little and so pregnant and such a little princess and so far from an anaesthetist and so little. Whilst it’s the men going to war, the women face this ordeal in peacetime and in war.

Likewise I’m also really enjoying the read along, it’s adding enormously to the experience (I’m not sure I’d ever have attempted it alone). It’s brought home to me how little I’ve read in the way of historical ‘classics’ - and what I have read is dominated by Austen and the Brontës, so mainly women. And very little in translation beyond a Balzac and half a Goethe.

Impressions so far are how international this set is, we’ve met characters of several nationalities, and really how similar the lives and preoccupations of these characters are to those of wealthy families, or gentlewomen in distressed circumstances, in English language literature. I’m surprised how accessible the Peace is so hope I can stay the course for the War.

I found this chapter quite emotional. I maintain my stance that Prince N has a heart of gold underneath his funny ways. The clear, unvoiced, love between him and Andrey in their goodbye scene was lovely but so sad that they couldn't just say what they feel and had to hide behind anger.

I do feel sorry for Lise, and while I don't think she should get up on the martyr's cross with Magic Eyes Marya, she could take a lesson from her and show a little bit of stoicism.

Again I found the goodbye scene between Marya and Andrey to be quite lovely, with their clear affection. It's interesting that she notes how he has changed. I wonder if she just means from childhood or more recently. Either way she talks a lot of sense about his marriage and Lise in between the religious forbearance. She may be a fun sponge but she is definitely kind and empathetic. And has magic eyes

We have reached the end of part one, that's fantastic. A big thank you to all of you for your company so far and especially to Desdemona for her regular summaries for keeping us on track and for being so entertaining!

That was an emotional chapter. I felt sorry for the prince, for Lise, for all of them! I'm interested in reading on.

Yes, thank you for the summaries, I'm not sure I'd have got this far without them!

"My only criticism is sometimes I question the choice of words or phrase that Briggs opts for as they sound anachronistic. That said, I don’t know what the original Russian actually says or how it says it so I could be wrong. "
I agree, the prose is often quite clunky, and it's hard to know how much is the translation, and how much the original

Thanks guys, you shouldn't encourage me!

I real powered through W&P last year, but my recollection is the war bits were more accessible than I expected, particularly where they affected characters we've come to know and love, or know and hate.

I'm also re-evaluating Prince Andrei on this reading and also noticing more that Pierre is behaving like a bit of a dick in these early chapters. What we've read slowly over a month, I'd have powered through in an hour or so.
I'm getting a lot out of taking my time and it's been lovely to chat about themes and characters with like minded people, I don't think I even know anyone else who's read it IRL.

I actually felt more sympathetic to Andrei in this latest chapter. It's clear that he's feeling pensive and solemn about going off to the war, but Lise is yabbering on about someone's teeth, indulging in unpleasant and repetitive gossip. It reminded me of once seeing Katie Price on an interview show where the other guests had been talking about their projects, current affairs etc and she came out and made a really crass sexual comment about another woman in the public eye. She came across as both nasty and thick (both of those may be unfair, I don't know her) and this was what I was getting from Lise in this chapter. Andrei obviously felt that any emotion that she was about to show would be OTT and possibly a bit fake - I know we've already done the TOWIE comparisons but Lise in my head is turning into a teeny-weeny, beautiful, moustachioed Gemma Collins.

Overall, like others, I have found the first section very readable and have especially enjoyed the chapter-a-day pace, which has encouraged me to pay attention rather than rushing through. Tolstoy has done an excellent job of introducing a cast of characters, three main locations, and laying out the background to the war. It's impressive how he has conjured up a feeling of universality (is that a word?) despite the fact that his characters are (a) not particularly diverse in background or circumstances, while at the same time being (b) quite idiosyncratic in their characters and behaviour. Through a few chapters filled with gossip, food and bad behaviour, he has laid the scene very effectively.

Big thank you from me to Desdemona for the summaries which have been both useful and entertaining 😊

I also meant to add that I have been reading the meditations. I actually posted the link because it included a little summary and brief commentary on each chapter which I thought would help people in keeping track - I hadn't realised that there would be philosophy every day as well! I've actually found some of the snippets very thought-provoking: Schopenhauer on expecting life to be tough, Epictetus on accepting what you can't control, and the Prince Nikolai-inspired paragraph about "daily repetition and purposeful scheduling" which really ties into the way I have approached my new year's resolutions, including the one to read W&P!

Yes, thanks @DesdamonasHandkerchief – I didn't realise it was only last year that you read it, so I'm impressed you're on for the challenge again so soon :)

This way of reading has been brilliant for me as it's meant I could keep up with other books at the same time, and not feel overwhelmed by focusing on this massive tome. And give it the attention it deserves every day. (I was the fool the one who mentioned Proust, but I've also discovered that Les Misérables has 365 chapters in most versions, so that seems a gift for reading over a year as well!)

These last chapters have been so revealing of Prince Andrey. There was an interesting bit in today's where he walked into his sister's room and went up to kiss/stroke the forehead of his wife and enquire whether she was rested, and she just went right on talking. It's such a weird union between this woman who is a slightly silly society gossip and this man who is that kind of brooding, cerebral type that seems not uncommon in literature from that sort of period. It's as big a mismatch of personalities as Anatole and Marya would/will (?) be!

Nikolay Senior is written brilliantly here too – you know exactly what sort of man he is and he is so vividly drawn over just a few chapters. I'm quite fond of the old tyrant!

As to the clunkiness (at least of Briggs), I've found some bits weirdly repetitive and nonsensical, but I think I read somewhere that the source material is like this - Tolstoy may have needed a good editor! There are definitely anachronisms as well, but on the plus side, he keeps things going at a good pace and captures the humour well. Will be interesting to see what happens with the war sections.

Another one saying thank you Desdemona for the chapter summaries and for everyone's contributions... I'm also reading for a second time (although not in a year!!) and am really enjoying the slower pace - I think I just powered through last time so I don't remember a whole lot although I know I really enjoyed it.

Perhaps a bit different to many on this thread, but I remember enjoying the War parts... not for the war as such but I think Tolstoys sense of humour and great characterisation does continue quite strongly. Or perhaps I'm just bloodthirsty?

I was fascinated by Anna M's transformation from faded old lady at the soiree to full on Machievelli by the final chapters so will be following Boris closely to see if he is worthy of her scheming..

I'm also looking forward to everyone growing up a bit - so both the men at the front but also those left behind... I can't remember a lot about what happens but the characters are so odd, quirky and memorable (once I've got my head around all their names!!)

Roll on Part 2

Thanks all

Does anyone else think that Lise and Andrei's might have been a shotgun marriage? I don't think the time line is going to pan out but the evidence so far:

He doesn't like her very much, she seems to embody all he hates most about women. It's difficult to believe he would ever have wanted to spend time with her.
They haven't been married very long. Anna Pavlovna’s soirée of the first chapter took place a few weeks after the signing of the third coalition between Austria, Great Britain and Russia on 11th April 1805. So maybe the party was late April.
The marriage had taken place in the winter proceeding, maybe January/February
Lise is already clearly pregnant at the soirée. She's referred to as waddling. When Andrei leaves Bald Hills for the war it’s autumn, so maybe September/October.
Additionally:
She's never visited his family home before.
She only met his relatives at the wedding,
Andrei's father is surprised by how heavily pregnant she is, and says, “You’ve not wasted any time. Not a good thing!”

Other random thoughts, there's a real dearth of parents in this book.
Aside from the Waltons Rostovs, Prince Vasily is a widower, Boris has no father, Dolokov has no father, Pierre has no mother, Andrei & Marya have no mother, where are all the parents 🤷‍♀️ And all the single parent families are portrayed as being dysfunctional in some way.

Also! I now know that Tolstoy has form for this! but why does he reuse names so much, were there very few names in Russia at the time or was he just lazy:
Anna x 2 Pavlovna and Mikhaylovna
Natasha/Natalia x 2 Both Rostov
Nikolai x 2 Rostov and Bolkonsky
Marya x 3 (Madame Karagin, Dmitriyevna (the dragon) and Bolkonsky)
And then family names separated by one letter Kuragin/Karagin

I know it happens in real life that you get people with the same first name, (I once worked in an office of 24 where 3 other female members of staff had the same name as me!) but it doesn't usually happen in literature to avoid confusion!

Re: the names, I think because quite often people are referred to in other ways. By title or along with patryonomic so possibly it is/was easy to distinguish between people this way. Only speculation on my part.

I’ve really loved this readalong and cannot wait for the rest.

I'm thinking if most people had a birthday and a saints day maybe there weren't that many names to choose from, just as many names as saints.
Although calling Anna Karenina's husband and lover by the same name is just downright bloody minded!

I think in Anna Karenina the naming of the husband and lover is deliberate. There was a compelling argument about why Tolstoy had done it but I can’t remember because I fancied the lecturer telling it so I was concentrating on trying to be all intellectual.

Incidentally, should I ever have a dog I plan to call it Alexei so I can shout it’s name just like Anna shouting it when Vronsky fell off his horse (not a spoiler I don’t think).

I think it might have been along these very basic lines.

@StColumbofNavron

I think in Anna Karenina the naming of the husband and lover is deliberate. There was a compelling argument about why Tolstoy had done it but I can’t remember because I fancied the lecturer telling it so I was concentrating on trying to be all intellectual.

Incidentally, should I ever have a dog I plan to call it Alexei so I can shout it’s name just like Anna shouting it when Vronsky fell off his horse (not a spoiler I don’t think).

🤣 Hilarious!

Okay I'll let Tolstoy off if he had an actual reason for the bloody mindedness!

Loving this readathon. Would not have considered or attempted to read W&P without it. I am a slow reader so the chapter per day is very doable and easy to achieve. Love reading everyone's thoughts and comments. Thank you (especially @Desdamona) it adds another layer to the whole experience. Looking forward to Book 2 - not sure how I will find the war part though!

DesdamonasHandkerchief that hadn't occurred to me that Andrei & Lise may have had a shotgun wedding but it does seem a possibility. I agree they're clearly not suited but I don't think anyone is in Andrei's case - he's a miserable sod just like his Dad! I feel for Lise because, like most women of the time she would be bloody scared to give birth especially if she's so young & 'delicate''.
I'm also still currently struggling with who's who so i may need to have a quick re-read of Part 1. I've googled a character list but the trouble is they tend to give spoilers!

Just adding my thanks especially to @VikingNorthUtsire and @DesdamonasHandkerchief. I probably would have quit ages ago without the explanations and daily summaries!
I'm loving the book so far - much more gossipy than I thought it would be. Suspect that'll change now we've entered the first bit of the war.

Yes, Viking - thanks so much for setting up and working out all the timings etc. That must have been a task and a half.

I just presumed that Andrei and Lise was an arranged match - similar to what they're trying to do for Anatole and Marya? The reason for her quick pregnancy was a honeymoon baby, before Alexei got to know her (and become very very bored by her)...

On names, it’s doubly confusing because not only are there several people with the same names, but each person goes by different names either with the patronymic or surname. Does anyone know if first-time Russian readers would struggle or whether they’d just be primed to learn each character’s various names?

Yes thanks for the recaps Desdemona, these have definitely helped me with things I have missed, or misunderstood!

I’ve absolutely loved part one, and like others I think a big part of that is the fact I have been forced to pace myself, have been able to read other books as well and haven’t got overwhelmed by need to finish this tome. I’m also on the Year of Wonder: Classical Music for Every Day chat so am definitely embracing a more bite sized approach.

I’ve really enjoyed the discussion too. The fact we’ve all been reading the same thing, at the same time, has meant we can have a real discussion, rather than just posting reviews with the occasional high level discussion. It’s been great hearing all of your thoughts and you’ve made me think about quite a few things in different ways. I hadn’t considered a shotgun wedding for Andrey and Lise (not sure about that but definitely possible) and hadn’t noticed the missing parents, perhaps because having two parents seems to be the exception rather than the norm so far!

I read W&P when I was 19 and remember hating the war bits, but I was tearing through wanting to get back to the gossipy bits so will be interesting to see how I find those sections this time.

@SanFranBear

I just presumed that Andrei and Lise was an arranged match - similar to what they're trying to do for Anatole and Marya? The reason for her quick pregnancy was a honeymoon baby, before Alexei got to know her (and become very very bored by her)...

This is what I thought too.