War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I thought it was the kind of situation where they'd met, he was infatuated, married then decided they had nothing in common. I just can't imagine Prince N picking Lise for his only son, especially when we see he values education for women.

@Cornishblues

On names, it’s doubly confusing because not only are there several people with the same names, but each person goes by different names either with the patronymic or surname. Does anyone know if first-time Russian readers would struggle or whether they’d just be primed to learn each character’s various names?

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread but will. I am a native Russian speaker and I read the books several times. We had to read them in school in our last year and everyone was loathing them due to the size but I remember really enjoying them. I feel like a re-read is due, it’s been a few years and I forget some details. To answer your question, no it’s not confusing (and it wasn’t the first time I read the books) to keep track of each character with the same first name but different patronymic names, or different variations of the same name.

@DesdamonasHandkerchief

Other random thoughts, there's a real dearth of parents in this book. Aside from the Waltons Rostovs, Prince Vasily is a widower, Boris has no father, Dolokov has no father, Pierre has no mother, Andrei & Marya have no mother, where are all the parents 🤷‍♀️ And all the single parent families are portrayed as being dysfunctional in some way.

Also! I now know that Tolstoy has form for this! but why does he reuse names so much, were there very few names in Russia at the time or was he just lazy:
Anna x 2 Pavlovna and Mikhaylovna
Natasha/Natalia x 2 Both Rostov
Nikolai x 2 Rostov and Bolkonsky
Marya x 3 (Madame Karagin, Dmitriyevna (the dragon) and Bolkonsky)
And then family names separated by one letter Kuragin/Karagin

I know it happens in real life that you get people with the same first name, (I once worked in an office of 24 where 3 other female members of staff had the same name as me!) but it doesn't usually happen in literature to avoid confusion!

In regards to the names, someone on this thread mentioned that a lot of people were names after saints, that is true. Anna is a very common name even now. In one of the (Ukrainian) villages that I used to visit when I was younger, literally every girl was called Hannah (Ukrainian for Anna) and every boy was called Vladimir 🤷🏻‍♀️ Natasha is an endearing form for Natalie so they are the same person (Rostov) Marya is Russian version of Mary, another really common name particularly among Orthodox Christians as well as Catholics I apologise I can’t remember if Kuragin/Karagin are the same person, I need to re-read these books but it could be a typo in the translated version? If not, then quite possibly these names would sound quite different when spoken in Russian. If you could give me an example of what chapters these are mentioned I can look it up and see if I can clarify. Hope this helps :)

Just popping in to add my thanks to you all, especially Desdamona and Viking. I’m not sure I would ever have tackled this on my own, but the daily summaries and comments have helped enormously and I’m really enjoying it ( so much so that I’ve started Anna Karenina too).

Thank you Mb76 that’s really interesting!

@MamaNewtNewt

I thought it was the kind of situation where they'd met, he was infatuated, married then decided they had nothing in common. I just can't imagine Prince N picking Lise for his only son, especially when we see he values education for women.

Yes I think you're probably right Mama I can't see either of the Bolkonsky men being on board with arranged marriages, but then sex before marriage was a really big deal too so probably a honeymoon baby.

Hi Mb76, wow someone on the thread who could read this in Russian! I'd have loved to have studied this at school.
The Natasha's are mother and daughter from the same family - Rostov.
The Kuragins are Prince Vasily and his children Hélène, Anatole & Hippolite.
The Karagins are Madame and Julie Karagin introduced in chapter 7 I think.

And come to think of it there hasn't been mention of a Mr Karagin, maybe Julie doesn't have a dad either.

Hi everyone, I’m looking forward to re-reading my books with you if you’ll have me :)
Desdemonas, I will look these up and will get back to you.
These are my books, published in 1983 in Moscow. They were among some very few treasured possessions I brought with me when I came to live in the U.K.
there are some lovely illustrations now and again and i will be happy to share them if anyone is interested, at appropriate times (no spoilers)

These are the illustrations of the Rostov children (and some cousins I believe) and Andrew having the conversation with his father (when he came to visit with his new wife Lise)

@MamaNewtNewt

I thought it was the kind of situation where they'd met, he was infatuated, married then decided they had nothing in common. I just can't imagine Prince N picking Lise for his only son, especially when we see he values education for women.

This does make sense, except I think Lise was considered a society darling and was very popular at the soiree. I see her as being thought to be a 'good match', rather like you read of marriages between the aristocracy in years gone by in this country. I wonder if, with the passage of time and their separation, we'll get to see their relationship deepen at all?

And if ole Vasily is trying to foist Anatole on Marya, he obviously thinks an arranged marriage will be received well although of course, daughters are probably not as valued as only sons (although I think, for all his bluster, Prince N would miss Marya if she was whisked away?)

Mb76 wow! Thank you for sharing these. They are fantastic.

What a lovely book Mb76! I love it that we can see exactly who the characters are in the illustrations.

I’d slightly wondered if Lise was very rich, and the fact that she was referred to as beautiful, but given the appearance of a chipmunk, was satirical?

On names etc it occurred to me that maybe if Nataly was translated as Natasha and Natasha as Tasha, this would be a better reflection of how easy that particular variation would be for a Russian reader to follow?

Lovely illustrations Mb76

@Mb76 I love those pictures, thanks for sharing.

The Bolkonskys seem to be ok for money so I don't think Lise's possible wealth would be a factor (well not a big one). I just can't see Prince N arranging for Andrey to marry someone he would find so silly. The Marya / Antole match has been mentioned a few times but not sure anyone has mentioned it to Prince N yet! Again I really feel he loves his children and wouldn't let Marya marry someone with that reputation.

Today's was interesting, obviously early days in the war section. It was good to see Dolokhov again, even though he's been busted down to Private he obviously has an air of command and wasn't afraid to stand up to the blustering General.

That poor army up all night getting their full-dress uniform in presentable condition only to be told they had to look as shabby as possible to avoid joining with the Austrian forces!

Also; “Here was a general unmistakably proud of his regiment, happy with it and serving it with all his energy and spirit. Even so, his quivering walk seemed to suggest that his personal interests extended well beyond the military to include good society and the fair sex.”
How does one go about acquiring a quivering walk that suggests all this? Asking for a friend.

Good to see our old friend and Naughty Boy, Dolokhov. Still the maverick in his naughty blue coat!

Austrian General Mack and Russian General Kutuzov were real people, Tolstoy being one of the first novelists to interweave historical fact with fiction,
From Shmoop:
Tolstoy’s research didn't just involve reading some history books and calling it a day. No, he dove into the archives, getting his hands on actual letters sent by Napoleon and the Russian and French generals and figuring out the personalities involved from the way they wrote about their activities. Even more impressive, he traveled to the actual battlefields, compass and surveying tools in hand, to map out for himself where the troops were stationed and how they attacked and defended. Now that’s dedication.

@Mb76 Great to have you on board and lovely illustrations!

A light start to the war section. The poor soldiers being messed about! It's amazing to think of how far they had marched to that point. Hundreds and hundreds of miles.

I guess the 'quivering' walk implies he is struggling to achieve a ramrod-straight military demeanour as he is someone a bit more used to swanning round a soirée or what have you – it's a very Tolstoyan observation, isn't it!

I enjoyed the Chinese whispers which turned 'Captain of the third company, report to the general!' into 'General to report to the third company!' It was a bright, lively start to Part Two.

Thanks for that information, Desdemona. I hadn't realised that Tolstoy did that research or that he based those characters on real people.

Had fallen off the thread, but not the readalong, although I am a couple of days behind. The summaries are really helpful - I'm guilty of reading fast and not taking in all the details, so this is helping me focus and make sure I'm picking up the connections and nuances that I'd otherwise miss. I've read W&P before, but am appreciating the slower pace of this and - as others have said - the ability to read it alongside other things.

Mb76 - those illustrations are beautiful and really leap off the page, especially the Rostov children. As Cornish said, you immediately recognise who they are - a testament to how well the characters are realised in such a brief time by ole Leon as well as the talent of the illustrator.

I'm also fascinated by Tolstoy heading out with his measuring tape and notebook.. are the battlefields and surrounding area well preserved as sites of historical importance or suchlike, or at least were back when he made his visit? Although I guess Russia is a hugely vast country and perhaps more sparsely populated than the UK and Europe whose various battlefields have largely been redeveloped.

Agree MamaNewt that it will be interesting to see Prince N's reaction to any proposed match between his daughter and Anatole - may give us more insight into how Nikoley and Lise came about!

Quite a relief to get the first War chapter under our belts and find it lively and full of human interest. I'd been dreading dry geo-political exposition or military strategy.

Thank you @Mb76 for the lovely pictures and for your insights.

I think I need some York Notes to explain the war now.

I love the illustrations, so helpful in forming a mental picture of the characters - thank-you!

Such beautiful illustrations @Mb76, thanks for sharing them. I'm finding it hard not to read on when the events continue from chapter to chapter. I finished the first part a few days ago. Maybe I'll do a week at a time and then catch up on the thread.

Nice to see Dolokhov making an appearance - the bear repercussions endure.

Oh my fellow readers. I’ve entirely fallen off the thread. I’ve had a rocky few weeks emotionally and have barely read anything for the past week. I shall try read a chapter tonight to get back into the groove.

Hope you're OK, Marya

Short chapters will hopefully mean it won't take you long to catch back up. Look after yourself

Hope you’re ok, Marya , I hope things improve for you.

Hope you're ok Marya and you can find solace in reading.

Dolokhov is quite an interesting character: arrogant and fearless. Certainly seems to be intent on making his own luck. Incidentally, he was played by the lovely Tom Burke in the BBC W&P.

Enjoyed the mimicking soldier in Chapter 3, and Timokhin, of the red nose and "predilection for Bacchus", standing so rigidly to attention "that he seemed unlikely to survive the experience"! Tolstoy is so good at describing the men's mannerisms.