What puts you off a book immediately?

[EishetChayil]

For me it's opening a book and discovering it's written in the second person. I can't bring myself to read on. It makes me squirm too much. Just about acceptable in a (very) short story, but not a whole novel.

I'm also no fan of epistolary form, if I'm perfectly honest.

Anything recommended by Richard or Judy

I downloaded the Tenant of WH after listening to an episode of In Our Time which was alll about it. It sounded interesting.

@CheeseMmmm

Map of imaginary area at front.

Nooooo! I love these.

I can get arsey about boring stereotypes, so with books where women bake and men tinker with motorbikes etc.

First person, present tense. Also too many characters introduced in the first few pages.

@upinaballoon Yes, Wildfell Hall is really interesting. No problem with "modern issues" as you call them. I meant that it's the contemporary style of writing I dislike - the present tense, multi-pov, virtue signalling etc etc.

To answer your question: in my experience, many teachers can't formulate a grammatical sentence. So the kids have no hope!

When characters didn't walk, they "padded".

"To answer your question: in my experience, many teachers can't formulate a grammatical sentence. So the kids have no hope!"

Sadly this is going to only get worse through successive generations if something isn't done soon.

I've just been on a selection panel for my local school, that was for a leader in English and Maths teaching, and the SPaG ranged from not great to fucking appalling - yet THEY were supposed to be the ones guiding the rest of the staff in how they taught English and Maths!!
Nope. I'm constantly amazed (and I don't know why, it's endemic) that teachers' SPaG isn't up to scratch - because it DOES get filtered down to students, and their mistakes then aren't picked up.

I remember being in one son's class where they had a story displaying on the smart board that included the phrase "please bare with me". I took the teacher aside and quietly pointed out that the word should be "bear" and she had to ask me if I was sure! Yes of COURSE I was, I wouldn't have said anything if I wasn't; and how is it that the basis of the sentence isn't understood anyway? Do people who use this spelling expect everyone to get naked together??

I'm in Australia so these are my experiences here - but from what I hear from UK friends, it's no better there.

When I have to flick through two pages of reviews for the book telling me it’s hysterical and unputdownable and usually it’s some chick lit cliche .

@CheeseMmmm

Map of imaginary area at front.

Didn't all the Jilly Cooper books come with this? Sorry, but classics so can't agree 😆

Really bad SPAG. A friend recently self published (print & online) and there's at least 15-20 errors per chapter. It's painful to read

If it says Shakespeare on the front. Utter shite.

Dodgy grammar and/or repetitive phrases/style e.g. excessive use of “he/she said, he/she sighed, leaning against the wall, spoke softly” etc!

When a character is drunk and they wrote phonetically drunk in their diary, Bridget!

Also no speech marks

When there is an over-user adjectives and every meal is perfect.

Ie. Instead of ‘The cat sat on the mat’, you have, ‘The big, black, cat was sitting on the round, red mat’

And Molly’s meal was delicious cooked, with crispy red onion rings, and succulent free-range chicken etc

Slightly off topic, but I find mis prints/errors in almost every book I read - anyone else? I can’t actually believe how common it is! You have one job!! It amazes me.

Molly thread

This thread was brilliant a couple of years back.

“f* off Molly”

All the things people didn’t like in chick lit books. Good thread for a bit of light relief.

I also don’t like it one people go back and forth in time. Seems to be a very common trend at the moment. Some are clearly written, with different fonts being used, or chapter headings detailing the dates. Others go back and forth, and you have to guess where you are, and the two time elements don’t seem to link up. I seem to recall The Beekeeper of Aleppo was bad at this.

Similar gripe with changing between different characters. You just get used to hearing the story from Fred’s point of view, and then you have to jump into Wilma’s viewpoint, which usually takes a different stance. You just get used to Wilma, and then you are back with Fred.

@123ZYX

Books where random words are written in the language of the place they are set. I know where the characters are - I can assume they're speaking their own language without it being written in that language. I don't want to have to translate random words while I'm reading

Yes, I agree

Books where a major plot point is incorrect and would never happen in real life. For example say the Plot relates to an insurance pay out in a particular set of circumstances but in real life the insurance will never pay out for a technical reason that is obvious to anyone working in insurance and it affects the whole story. Ditto inheritances

Substitutions like affect and effect, practise and practice.

Scottish and Yorkshire accents written as they sound

Tbh multiple perspective books....I just start getting into a storyline and then it stops dead and I have to get to know someone new. I accept that this is a really limiting opinion

First person and present tense. If it is both, I won't even pick the book up.

Repeated stock phrases

Clenched fist due to anger etc

I’m reading Ds favourite book for him and it’s not too bad but over use of words - through repetition but also pungency of words too strong

Nevil Shute is a good antidote

Also started a east light library book and female lead really had a go re 60 year old woman figure and everything else

Too ageist

Long chapters.

Leaping backwards and forwards in time.

Books called The (insert artisanal profession)'s daughter.

Covers where said artisan's daughter is shown in period dress from behind, sort of gazing into the distance.

Books (about half of all chick lit ever written) where the main character is called Kate.

Kate goes off to Cornwall after a traumatic event and finds herself, and love.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

"To answer your question: in my experience, many teachers can't formulate a grammatical sentence. So the kids have no hope!"

Sadly this is going to only get worse through successive generations if something isn't done soon.

I've just been on a selection panel for my local school, that was for a leader in English and Maths teaching, and the SPaG ranged from not great to fucking appalling - yet THEY were supposed to be the ones guiding the rest of the staff in how they taught English and Maths!!
Nope. I'm constantly amazed (and I don't know why, it's endemic) that teachers' SPaG isn't up to scratch - because it DOES get filtered down to students, and their mistakes then aren't picked up.

I remember being in one son's class where they had a story displaying on the smart board that included the phrase "please bare with me". I took the teacher aside and quietly pointed out that the word should be "bear" and she had to ask me if I was sure! Yes of COURSE I was, I wouldn't have said anything if I wasn't; and how is it that the basis of the sentence isn't understood anyway? Do people who use this spelling expect everyone to get naked together??

I'm in Australia so these are my experiences here - but from what I hear from UK friends, it's no better there.

It's definitely no better here. If a teacher has terrible SPaG that's one thing, but it's so disheartening when they don't understand why it's a problem. It's not just teachers, either. When you get an email from the Principal, and it's full of basic errors, it makes you wonder about the standards for everyone.

Kind of a derail from the original post, though - sorry!