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Troubled Blood - *Spoiler-laden discussion*

878 replies

EllacottObsessive · 22/11/2020 20:48

Setting this up for Strike and Ellacott fans to talk about spoilery things.

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EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 20:22

I think I'd just want to put something in the description if the content got a bit near the knuckle, as it might, that's all, and I think it would be a bit counterproductive to do that too early on.

(Yes, I'm entirely aware of how very ridiculous it is that I am now taking this seriously, but it's rather taken off and I am bricking it, so channeling my best 'be focused, it'll be fine' attitude.)

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ShippingStrikeandRobin · 30/11/2020 20:30

Oh no, it's a serious business this. You were born to do this so embrace and enjoy :)

EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 20:36

and I've just realized that you're all probably reading my posts in my own voice now, and I'm going to hide in the corner, all self conscious. Grin Grin Grin

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ShippingStrikeandRobin · 30/11/2020 21:24

Well, I wasn't but now that you've mentioned it... Grin

ShippingStrikeandRobin · 30/11/2020 21:39

@parentalhelpline

Dave Polworth - you want to laugh with him but he is obviously a bit of a dick too (Rowling is a flipping genius at creating real, vivid characters). But he absolutely has Strike and Charlotte nailed:

‘Good move,’ his old friend Dave Polworth had said without missing a beat, when Strike told him of the engagement [to Charlotte]. ‘Shame to waste all that combat training. Slightly increased risk of getting killed, though, mate.’ (Lethal White)

I like Dave Polworth on a certain level. He is funny and loyal. But can you imagine being married to him? No bloody chance. I also get the distinct impression he doesn't think much of women.
parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 21:59

Not do women think much of him, it seems - although I have a sneaking suspicion that Robin might enjoy his company despite herself.

He's definitely a representative of a particular kind of masculinity, which Strike is conversant with (he is ex-army so knows it well) but doesn't live out himself. Polworth is the man Strike could have been if he had stayed in Cornwall, perhaps.

EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 22:08

I cannot ever see Strike adopting the Polworth reading of Mazankov and Krupov, where he asks himself why he's bothering to go out on the hunt for women when he could have sex on tap at home. Especially given the massively disrespectful way he puts it (I can't recall the specifics, but I think it was fairly grim intimate body part language).

Strike has a libido and is quite happy to indulge it, but he actually likes women. I suspect one of the reasons Charlotte wounds him so deeply is because he so desperately wants to believe good things about her, and wants to respect her but can't (because she's a terrible person!!)

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parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 22:10

The language Polworth uses is really grim, to the point where I was judging Strike for being his friend.

ShippingStrikeandRobin · 30/11/2020 22:16

"Polworth is the man Strike could have been if he had stayed in Cornwall, perhaps."

I'm not too sure about this given Leda was Strike's mum. Strike was always going to be different because of his upbringing.

Which reminds me EO - in your podcast you talk about Strike not talking about his emotions or his thoughts to Robin. Strike is very self-contained. I think it was partly due to Leda (I think you may have linked it to Joan) because in order to protect himself from her lifestyle, he would have needed to keep a lot of things in for him to survive it. All that chaos. And then going into a stable home with Joan & Ted, I'm sure that Strike would have known that Joan did not approve of Leda as a mum, so yes, he would have had to keep his thoughts to himself here too.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 30/11/2020 22:22

Oh god I only just got the risqué joke bit 😳 sorry as you were

What I find intriguing about Strike is his wide range of friendships. As you say EO, he’s not a brooding loner. His friends are from all walks of life & it’s not as if he makes an effort to change depending on where he is. He’s always him whether out with Polworth in Cornwall, hanging out with Shanker or one assumes at the kind of posh things he would have gone to with Charlotte

FiftyWaysToWinInDenver · 30/11/2020 22:41

There was a great article by Nick Cohen about JKR after the furore about Troubled Blood and he mentioned that Dave Polworth scene where he talks about “hole” and it was something about praising her for writing about the reality of men but also how it will never end up in the TV adaptation.

EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 22:42

Girth. I'm very childish, really. I'm surprised I didn't make a sound like Muttley.

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parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 22:45

@FiftyWaysToWinInDenver

There was a great article by Nick Cohen about JKR after the furore about Troubled Blood and he mentioned that Dave Polworth scene where he talks about “hole” and it was something about praising her for writing about the reality of men but also how it will never end up in the TV adaptation.

I'm sure you're right. There are a number of spiky bits in Rowling's writing that I don't think are ever going to be filmed, unfortunately. I'm hoping they don't take out all of the many and varied expressions of misogyny, though.

EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 22:46

Yy, agreed about feeling a bit odd about Strike being mates with Polworth given the attitude to women, but he's mates with Shanker who has probably bumped people off so there's degrees of comfort here!!

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EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 22:51

Shipping, oh I think you're right - the nomadic thing gave him and his sister the ability to 'fit in' in different places (shifting the accent is mentioned I think - another point where I think Burke's acting choices are great, because TV Strike has those warm Cornish vowels leaking through, but very much in the manner of a Cornish native who hasn't lived there for a good long while) and yes, part of the closed off nature of communication with Joan may well have been part of it too, for sure.

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parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 22:59

"Polworth is the man Strike could have been if he had stayed in Cornwall, perhaps."

I'm not too sure about this given Leda was Strike's mum. Strike was always going to be different because of his upbringing.

I suppose I was wondering what would have happened if Leda hadn't taken them off and Strike had stayed in Cornwall away from all the influences of her London life, and his Oxford and army experiences - would he have settled into a convention married life like Lucy and turned out a bit like Dave? Probably not, but a provincial Strike would look quite different, I think.

EllacottObsessive · 30/11/2020 23:13

On that, I agree. But he's still going to be the guy clever enough to go to Oxford. I think it's feasible he might have channelled that into something passionate like Cornish Nationalism perhaps. Still don't think he'd ever be a misogynist though, which might be my book crush talking.

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parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 23:20

So, here are some thoughts expanding on what I was saying about mothers/parents/families in TB. My copy is at the bottom of the house down a number of flights of stairs and I am tucked up in bed and can't be bothered to fetch it, so sorry if I remember it all wrong. I'm posting this to get it off my chest, so I am honestly happy if you all just want to talk about Tom while I witter to myself.Grin

The case in Troubled Blood (I think the title is a pointer to the theme of fractured families) is about a daughter looking for her lost mother for some kind of reassurance that she was loved and not deserted. Strike and Robin manage to achieve this for her, as well as reconciling her to her remaining family; they also manage to help a grieving father find his daughter's body in the course of the investigation, reuniting another family.

Both Robin and Strikes reassess their own families in the course of the book, especially Strike. He begins in Cornwall, needing to be there but also profoundly uncomfortable with his own family, fighting with Lucy about their respective 'mothers', Leda and Joan, and kicking off about her kids and children in general. Strike's growth in the book is becoming more comfortable with his Cornwall family, and as EO has so eloquently put it, allowing himself to experience the affirmation of Joan to show him what love really can be. At her funeral, though, he also has a glimpse of his London 'family' (basically Robin) and longs to return to them. At the same time, he violently rejects the extended Rokeby family who would spin their web around him and gather him up if he would allow them. Chapter 58 shows Strike opening up to a real 'family' member (Robin) about his memories of rejection by his father, and his determination not to be a parent himself, which Charlotte had always shared, but Robin challenges. He hasn't really shifted from that view by the end of the investigation as far as we can see, but he does acknowledge to himself how much he wanted Joan's maternal affirmation that he has done a good thing - he is just starting to see families in a slightly different light, and beginning to wonder if he does in fact want to live detached and alone and free from emotional and family ties.

Robin's storyline in TB begins with tracking down a bigamist (someone who has deceitfully multiplied his families). Then she has that very uncomfortable Christmas with her family, who are all obsessed with her baby niece, while she feels as if she is going in a different direction to them, even to her favourite cousin. Her mother seems to be on her back about settling down (and having a family?) and she feels at outs with them all. (She's also very sad for Ilsa that she can't become a mother, although Rowling doesn't make much of this.) Robin's realisation in chapter 58 is that she can't subscribe to the conventional family life that Matthew would have wanted (although Matthew seems to be becoming a parent somewhat reluctantly, so it may not work out for him as he has always expected). Although she does not completely reject the idea of children, her work and her work family are going to take priority at this point. She shares some of her own childhood memories with Strike later, in Skegness, which are tinged with melancholy, but by the time of her birthday, her mother is, if not entirely off her back, at least silenced by her dismissal of Morris, and Robin acknowledges that she is very lucky to have had a stable loving family. So both of them feel a bit more comfortable with their own families by the end of the book.

Not sure where Rowling could go with this, but I wonder if we will see Robin finding enough fulfilment in her work to disregard the conventional marriage/children expectations, or whether she is going to find it as hard to reconcile as many women do. If Strike is in fact (as most of us hope) moving towards a relationship with Robin, will the agency be enough of a legacy, or will they end up wanting children? We all wait, more or less patiently, to find out. In my case, I'm waiting very impatiently indeed. Grin

parentalhelpline · 30/11/2020 23:32

Is the adult baby thing connected to the parent/child theme?! Probably.

EllacottObsessive · 01/12/2020 00:01

Excellent thoughts, as ever. I had similar ideas about the meaning of the title too. I think I might try and sleep now, but I'd just really like to thank everyone who's contributed to the thread. It's been so much better than I'd hoped. I thought it'd just be me making donkey references.

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parentalhelpline · 01/12/2020 06:45

@FiftyWaysToWinInDenver

There was a great article by Nick Cohen about JKR after the furore about Troubled Blood and he mentioned that Dave Polworth scene where he talks about “hole” and it was something about praising her for writing about the reality of men but also how it will never end up in the TV adaptation.

I've just found that article, FiftyWaysToWinInDenver - you're right, it's great. Thank goodness for journalists who actually read the books.

thecritic.co.uk/issues/october-2020/braving-the-goblet-of-fire/

EllacottObsessive · 01/12/2020 10:23

Wow. That's a great article.

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EllacottObsessive · 01/12/2020 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShippingStrikeandRobin · 01/12/2020 19:17

Loving the new name, EO

I was thinking about the new direction that your life is going to take you (don't worry, have it all planned for you). Podcasts to blog which morphs into a fan site (a more managable version of asoiaf/westeros) with a dedicated forum and place to submit fan fiction. You become the go-to Strike expert that all media go for analysis when JKR has a new book out.

What do you think?

Biscuitsanddoombar · 01/12/2020 19:20

Oh that was a fantastic article!! And yes there’s no way that speech by Polworth is getting in the TV adaptation