I've never read.....

[tobee]

a (fictional) murder mystery book that has a satisfying ending. Discuss.

That's too bad for you. What is there to discuss?

Haven't you read much in that genre? There are loads of excellent thrillers/ police procedurals/ golden age detective dramas out there.

Try P D James, Ruth Rendell, Val McDermid, Ian Rankin, Dorothy L Sayers, Peter May, Ed McBain, M R Hall, Reginald Hill, Susan Hill, James Patterson, Lee Child etc.

You won't come up for breath for a few years

I also like the Martin Beck series. I find them quite satisfying. :)

I just thought it might provoke an interesting debate. Fair enough if not! I just have read lots of the genre, but maybe I'm reading the wrong ones. I've read lots of PD James and Dorothy L Sayers as well as Agatha Christie, Ngaio Marsh, Sherlock Holmes (not always murder mystery) and some modern ones. I just find although I often enjoy the journey, characters and atmosphere, the denouement is often a bit of a cop out in the effort to keep you guessing. I'm not sure if I even 100% agree with myself. But was hoping people could prove me wrong.

PS maybe I should have said whodunnits?

Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes are a little old school. They have their fans (Hi Remus! ) but imho they can't/don't compete with more recent novels in complexity and brutal reality.

Have you read The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo?

What greenhill says :). Susan Hill's Simon Serrailler series is particularly good, as is the late great P D James's Adam Dalgliesh series. Neither of which has disappointed me.

For lighthearted, but still good stories well-plotted, try Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series. Ben Aaronovitch's Peter Grant series - well plotted, lots of interesting twists and turns.

And Robert Galbraith aka J K Rowling - very good.

Yes, I've read Girl with Dragon Tattoo trilogy and plenty of the earlier PD James. I still stand by what I said with those, but that's just me. Anyway, I deliberately put in to "discuss" because it's the kind of thing that gets my back up and was (sort of) hoping people would be fired up to say "you're talking crap, tobee, there's this, this and this!" Which people have done, so thanks!

Specifically about the book The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, what was it about its ending that left you unsatisfied?

No need to dig your heels in with "I stand by what I said", btw.

I meant the trilogy as a whole which I think lost its way. I liked the characters and the setting and the mileau, but found some of the sex and violence gratuitous. I'm not usually bothered but I found some of it seemed to me stuck in for titalation and to increase sales. This was my impression. I said I stand by what I say because I didn't want to give a ginormous great long critique of one (trilogy) of books and because I can't remember it in enough detail. It was the way I felt at the end.

DH and I have often debated this. But we obviously only know a limited number of books and I've found mumsnet to have a huge number of well read members. Maybe, I've wondered, it doesn't matter too much about the ending if you've enjoyed the journey?

Have you read any Dorothy L Sayers? I love Nine Tailors for example. And the pay off at the end of Gaudy Night (when you've read it's predecessors) is definitely worth it.

I also really like Josephine Tay's Daughter of Time. It's not really a murder mystery in the normal sense (it's set in the 1900's but they are investigating the fate of the Princes in the Tower) but it's brilliant.

Fwiw, I tend to find the same, OP. I suppose I'm thinking more of the psychological thriller type book than murder mystery per se but I almost always get to the end and think, "Oh, come off it." There'll be something fundamentally ridiculous about the whole thing. But I enjoy the journey. The Robert Galbraith ones are good.

I really like Doyle, but I do think that sometimes the 'satisfying ending' actually occurs about three quarters of the way through, and is followed by a bit of an anti-climax.

Have you read any CJ Sansom, Tobee? Agree with the first Galbraith too, although the ending was a bit Christie-esque, I felt, so wasn't perfect.

Some of Agatha Christie's are hit and miss, but some are excellent. Towards Zero sticks in my mind, which was beautifully done, and A Murder is Announced. And The Mirror Crack'd. All superb.

The problem I am starting to find is that once you read a certain number, the various tricks and tropes get easy to spot. But that's all part of the fun, I suppose.

While I love the Sherlock Holmes stories to read they are terrible, terrible mysteries. Leave you thinking

Caroline Graham writes a decent mystery (the DI Barnaby books. Yes, that one, from Midsomer Murders).

In my view, a good murder mystery should end like a decent twist in a film; you don't see it coming, but when it comes, not only does it make perfect sense, you see everything that's gone before in an entirely different light.

Er, I meant to edit out that 'Leave you thinking'. Whoops.

The early Kay Scsrpettas have good endings. I remember reading the very first one and being shocked by who did it

Have you tried the Maisie Dobbs mysteries by Jaqueline Winspear?
Really lovely evocative writing set just after the first World War. You do need to read them in order :)

topee - "I meant the trilogy as a whole which I think lost its way. I liked the characters and the setting and the mileau, but found some of the sex and violence gratuitous. I'm not usually bothered but I found some of it seemed to me stuck in for titalation and to increase sales. This was my impression. "

All that's great but I asked you about (1) only the book The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, and specifically (2) why you thought its ending was unsatisfying.

Your OP is about how you have never read a murder mystery book that has a satisfying ending. And I'm asking you what you didn't find satisfying about the ending of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, which you have read.

Mystic River by Denis Lehane is a murder mystery with a perfect ending. It's a brilliant book in every way. I don't really mind a contrived ending though as long as all the loose ends are tied up. Jo Nesbo and Peter Robinson are two writers who always have watertight plots. I don't think there were any Agatha Christie books I didn't like but I remember being shocked (in a good way) by Crooked House and by the one about Jock and all the adopted children.

Has something happened to Peter Robinson? I haven't seen anything new from him in ages, and I miss Alan Banks' playlists.

cresset Abattoir Blues is the last one I read. A new hardback is due next summer I think

Thanks for all the suggestions. SPOILER ALERT Cote I agree to a large extent about The Girl with them Dragon Tattoo although except I tend to find a problem with the criminal being someone in the family. I suppose one's always bound to compare fiction with real life and serial murders tend not to be although one off murders often are.

I was thinking the other day that The Maltese Falcon goes against my original statement. But then again, I think that you end up being more interested in the relationship between Brigid O'Shaugnessy and Sam Spade then the killer's identity, although that becomes integral to that dynamic. So, I think, to change mediums, I go along with concept of the Macguffin. The murderer isn't really the important bit, it's the getting there that draws you in. If the reveal also works then that's a bonus.

Yes, I've read lots of Dorothy L Sayers, mrsmortis, and am a great fan of them. But once again, I think what appeals is the character of Wimsey and then later his relationship with Harriet. The murderers' identity is largely incidental and often forgettable.

"I tend to find a problem with the criminal being someone in the family."

Um.. that's what you meant by "never read a murder mystery with a satisfying ending"?

"I suppose one's always bound to compare fiction with real life and serial murders tend not to be although one off murders often are."

Have you even read The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo? That serial killer did NOT murder the missing girl in his family. He has murdered all sorts of complete strangers in various other places.

I really didn't like, 'The Maltese Falcon.'

Raymond Chandler much, much better.