Is being Obese an illness?

[agel]

Yes or No
Im really not trying to start an argument. I want to understand what people actually think/know/believe about this.

I am obese and am trying to gain some sort of control over my eating through therapy at the moment. I’ve tried diets and exercising that do work but long term I don’t seem to be able to change my lifestyle enough to keep the weight off. I hate living like this and how people treat me differently because of my size. My family don’t understand at all. My partner is not understanding and it’s seriously affecting our relationship in many ways. It seems unfair because I don’t feel I have much control over this. It’s actually very lonely being in this situation. I rarely mention the topic of my health or weight to others because pardon the pun it’s always the elephant in the room! But you can almost hear what people are thinking. I hate the judgemental looks and comments. I rarely go out now because of anxiety and panic attacks brought on by this situation.

@ExpectMore

I didn't talk about judgement, I said your over-simplification of obesity was judgemental. And I was talking about your words, not you. I'm sorry that you're one of those people that confuses criticism of what they say with a personal attack.

Judgemental : characterized by a tendency to judge harshly, tending to make quick and excessively critical judgments, especially moral ones

You know, like... I dunno...saying WLI are the lazy option?

What's weird is you disapprove of WL| as the lazy option, but also disapprove of staying fat.

I've lost 6.5 stone in the last year and a bit, because WLI enabled me to do what you criticise fat people for being too lacking in self-control/ignorant/whatever to do. So, my question is what according to your worldview should I have done? What is the better FACTUAL outcome for me, my health and the NHS. Staying as I was 18 months ago by carrying on trying and failing to lose weight or spend my own money to enable reaching a healthy BMI?

My “over simplification” is in alignment with what’s written on the NHS website. If I’m over simplifying you may wish to let them know they are also.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/overweight-and-obesity/

@ExpectMore Unfortunately so many of your posts have been deleted for breaking MN guidelines that I am unable to now find where you used the word lazy, but I wouldn't have quoted it, if you had not used it.

You are showing a lack of understanding as to how WLI work, by considering them to be "lazy" anyway.

WLI do not melt the fat from the body, whilst the individual using them continues to eat the way that they previously did. All the same measures are required that you deem to be perfectly acceptable ways to lose weight. The WLI user is required to restrict calories and / or increase energy expenditure. For a variety of medicinal reasons WLI facilitate this process.

Please do show me where on that link it says anything remotely approximating this delightful judgemental little paragraph of yours.

"It’d be cheaper if people took accountability for their own health and well being and didn’t rely on drugs full stop. They were around years ago when obesity levels were much less. I get that sometimes people need some short-term help but the current levels of demand and use are excessive: it’s another symptom of the trend for instant fixes or rewards rather than the simple basic tried and tested boring approach"

Particularly gIven that the NHS link actually talks about WLI as a possible option (even though we all know realistically you have to be almost dead to get them)

The 2 bullets where it states the causes of obessity….

Yep, nothing there mithering about accountability and over reliance on drugs. Not a word.

Also followed by loads more bullet points recognising other contributing factors thus not over-simplifying in the way you have.

Yes a depressing fact that many people report what they dislike and that Mumsnet seems to be falling into the trap of silencing opinions that aren’t those of the majority.

Trust me, I didn’t. If I had of I’d have owned it in the same way I owned making the other statements.

It was others who jumped on the “lazy” bandwagon. I suspect projecting their own views on top of my specific observations.

They state it’s about eating too much and moving too little. Think about it? Who is accountable for that? The individual (hint hint hint) or are you going to suggest someone / something else (I’m half expecting you to say “the government” given everything else seems to be left to them these days).

the subsequent bullets are also in alignment with my original post that there can be other factors making it more difficult. Again, almost exactly the NHS words.

@ExpectMore well regardless of the decisions made by MN, you have just said that the use of WLI by overweight and obese people fits the definition of lazy and I have countered that.

People are entirely within their rights to be lazy or lacking in discipline. Nothing immoral about that. I’m not sure why you keep implying it is.

@MargoLivebetter and this pp disagrees with you.

So you wouldn't say that 'lazy' and 'lacking discipline' are used pejoratively?

And in any case, what is wrong with taking a 'lazy' approach to something if it helps you achieve an aim? Is it lazy to use motorised transport instead of walking everywhere, flick a switch to turn the heating on instead of building a fire in a grate, or shop at a supermarket instead of growing all your own food?

The disapproval by some of people using WL drugs reminds me of the disapproval by some around women and natural childbirth.

@ExpectMore I think that SilenceInside was using a degree of irony in her reply to you - but that is not for me to say.

However, regardless the WLI did not change the fact that the work still had to be done. Calorific intake had to be reduced and / or more energy expended. Your argument was that it is lazy to use WLI. My argument is that the exact same work has to be done WLI or not. Therefore WLI are not lazy!

I agree with someone upthread, it probably is now a modern day disease caused by our obesogenic society and lifestyles.

I am slim and no-one of my family (or dh's) have been obese, I have photos of family members stretching back to the 1800's and none are overweight. However, sadly my DS21 is 8 stone overweight. He was slim as a child and right up until he started to drive and work and then the weight started piling on because he was skipping dinner at home and going out for meals, eating endless UPFs and takeaways and quick to eat food that takes little imagination and cooking.

The fact he was slim for the first 17 years of his life shows it's obviously not a disease in the traditional sense but lifestyle choices and a constant push from the food (if you can call most of the stuff food) industry for people to snack constantly.

But all of our relatives in those black and white family photos could easily have become 8 stone overweight like my poor ds in the here and now but they lived in a time where they used their bodies to move around more, cycled/walked to work, did manual work and housework, only ate 3 meals per day and didn't snack out/eat out because most people ate to live, not the other way around. There was also usually someone at home cooking meals from scratch and no mad dash to ping something in the microwave once everyone had crashed home exhausted after long days at work.

We all know that many foods these days is full of crap and is only adding to the crisis and I try not to be a conspiracy nut but the shite in food produced by the major manufacturers is highly addictive and that's got to be to keep those obese hooked on those foods wanting more....it's a legal drug and many are in desperate need of UFP rehab.

I worry so much about my son especially as he has a very fatty liver so whether his current obese state is an illness/disease or not it soon will be if he doesn't do anything about it.

Isn't lazy just another way of saying efficient? My feeling is that you can see one choice such as using a GLP1 and either perceive it as wise, efficient, useful or choose to say it is instead lazy and lacking self discipline. And that perception is on you, not the person who is reaping the benefits of making intelligent choices for their health.

Ok @ExpectMore I took the time to read the nhs leaflet you have now pasted twice I think.

Yes all factually correct as one would expect. With a glaring gap. I did not see any realistic or basic mention or acknowledgement of how hard it can be to lose weight AND MAINTAIN the loss.

Any weight loss coach worth their salt will tell you straight how hard it is and it’s not a simple target reach. They will be honest because it’s true for many of us as shown by the yoyo so many of us go up and down on.

This lack of even a smidgeon of understanding in a formal piece of information is one reason why people are judged so harshly. Yes, it provides info like you can join a support group or whatever. The leaflet omits a great deal of the real life facts experienced by many of us. It also lets people down badly by their farcical nutritional plate or whatever it’s called, the crap they feed people in hospital on etc.

If it helps, I describe myself as lazy. But also driven. It means I tend to find the most efficient way of doing something. I actually also prefer “lazy” employees as they tend to get the job done in the most efficient way, making time for other work.

Most of those examples are lazy yes and they’re the right choices in most cases (except for walking which I believe should always be prioritised wherever possible for health and environmental reasons).

The issue with taking the “lazy” approach here wrt the drugs is the cost to the nhs (= tax payers). Yes, that option might be cheaper than dealing with the consequences of obesity, but by far the better option is the tried and tested option of eating healthily, moving more, and thus avoiding not only the costs of treating the consequences of obesity but also the costs of the drugs.

Of course a weight loss coach would say that. They’d be out of a job if they said otherwise!

It’s not the same work. WLI reduces the will power involved which is effort in its own right. If it’s the same work, why would anyone need the drugs?!

The difference, once again, is in the judgemental tone of your posts. Don't be disingenuous about using phrases like lazy and lacking discipline. Obviously it's not immoral to be those things, obviously people have the "right" to be them but they are negative descriptors associated with the wrong way to be versus the right approach. Which makes it a moral judgement.

I actually do take issue with the NHS website because it doesn't address what this thread was originally talking about - the question of how much harder it is for an obese person to lose weight than for someone at a healthy weight to stay there. And how much more likely regain is once you've been obese because it is a medical problem and your body has been changed by obesity.

So, taking your world view (better that all those undisciplined people didn't get obese in the first place) given that time travel isn't a thing, what's the next best way to "take accountability"? I know! How about using a successful, proven method to support long term large weight loss and reduce the obesity crisis? What? Oh, that's lazy! Oh dear. Best we all stay fat then.

Do they? I've not read anywhere that WLI reduce will-power involved. Please can you let me know what evidence you have to support this.

You may not have called them lazy as such, but attributing their weight to a lack of self-control makes essentially the same moral judgment.

You’re falling into the trap of disingenuously believing everyone who has a “healthy weight” has an easy life and it’s just by mistake and with no effort that they’re a healthy weight. That couldn’t be further from the truth. Those individuals are making the right choices day in day out and have done so for years.

I’d argue it’s much easier for someone who is obese to lose weight that for someone to maintain a healthy weight. The obese individual has the added inventive of if they don’t do anything their health will suffer.

We routinely celebrate innovation, efficiency and finding ways to achieve desired outcomes with less effort. Much of human progress has involved developing tools and interventions that reduce the amount of work required to accomplish something.
We don't generally regard someone as morally superior for choosing a more difficult, less effective method when a better-supported alternative is available.
In fact, if we define laziness as an inclination to avoid unnecessary effort, it can sometimes be the very thing that motivates ingenuity, efficiency and problem-solving.
GLP-1 medications are not effortless solutions, nor are they suitable or effective for everyone. But they can make weight management substantially more achievable by modifying the biological processes involved in appetite and satiety.
If someone identifies an effective, evidence-based treatment and uses it to improve their health, why would we interpret that as a character failing rather than purposeful problem-solving?
Perhaps the real issue is that we have confused the amount of suffering involved in achieving an outcome with the value of the outcome itself.
Since when did making something unnecessarily difficult become a virtue?

come on, that’s essentially the crux of how they work. They’re an appetite suppressant thus there is reduced willpower needed to avoid over eating.

How do weight-loss drugs like Mounjaro and Wegovy work? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c981044pgvyo