What should the government do to reduce obesity at the societal level?

[waistchallenge]

We're the fattest country in Europe and the upshot is what you see here: people posting threads in desperation about their weight loss struggles. I think we can probably all agree it would be easier to never have gotten overweight in the first place and to never have had to go through these weight loss efforts and experiences.

Apart from the sugar tax, I cannot see that the government has done much, if anything, to reduce obesity in this country; it's higher than ever.

I'm asking here because we all have experience of this to be on here, what-if anything- should the government do to reduce obesity in this country? What would have helped you? Or is it all just ultimately a question of personal responsibility?

My radical suggestion is that it should be illegal to work more than three days a week. People, especially women, don’t exercise due to lack of time. If people worked less they would have more time to exercise.

This would also help with adult mental health, child mental health ( parents would have more time for them), environmental stuff ( more time to shop local, mend stuff, do your garden rather than Astro turf it) , and social connection and community ( more time to spend with other people) .

Also, stop building suburbs. People drive in suburbs as there is nothing to walk to. People walk when they have active lively communities to walk and be active in. No one wants to pointlessly walk in empty streets.

I agree, how old is the original poster? I am in my early 50s and I lived on UPF! Finders crispy pancakes, Campbell tinned meatballs, pie from a tin, had biscuits every day, a choc biscuit and crisps from the tick shop every day.

Kids were still thinner though as we walked everywhere and played actively in our neighbour hoods everyday. Not like kids now.

Personal responsibility has given us a massive obesity problem. I’m all for some nanny state if it gives me better designed places to live that encourage active travel, and some more effective carrots and sticks to make people eat more healthily. It’s not going to get in the way of those who already make good choices.

Is it the case that slimmer countries like Italy or Japan rely on state interventions in diet over personal responsibility, though?

massive investment in safe cycling! An astonishing proportion of daily journeys can be done by bike (way way more than can be walked), and e-bikes are a game changer.

convert big chunks of parking at hospitals/supermarkets to bike parking - all the close spots (ex disabled but inc p and c), so that people walk less if they cycle and more if they drive.

to do this they need to get going really quickly w proper connecting cycle paths, linking the places people go every day. Nobody who commutes by train WANTS to oay £8/day to park, and nobody who lives within 5 miles of the station should - get going w hub and spoke lanes.

workplace parking levy (that’d include parking provided by shops for customers) all hypothecated into transport improvements - inc buses.

And then on a totally different tack, school
meals… kids learn SO much about food culture at school and what they experience is truly dreadful in most places. Teaches a strange idea that junk is fuel.

I think it’s more cultural

I’m not sure many interventions would work

I don’t know about diet but Japan has certainly had state interventions in exercise over the years - a daily callisthenics routine was introduced decades ago which is broadcast on national radio and many large employers still follow it.
You can see political choice at work in any country where children at school are fed a proper school dinner instead of beige. Turning school meals over to profit making companies with no nutritional requirements was a political decision which other countries have not made.

Agree cultural. Uk have followed US.

It’s not about single food items that you an an individual ate- typically 60% of what the population eats is a UPF now, a significant % of children are living on a 80% UPF diet. Population wise this is higher than it was in thr 1970’s/80s

Japanese school dinners are nutritionally balanced, fish, pickles, rice, soup. Fruit. Portions in Japan are small. There is a small rise in obesity in Japan but it’s very noticeable if you see someone fat never mind obese. Travelling there recently it’s not set up for fat people never mind obese. Unlike the US where everything is getting bigger.

There aren’t many children out playing in neighbourhoods today as they’re often in childcare while both parents work. My children don’t get home until 6pm and then it’s dinner, showers and bed. Same for most of the children on our street. There just isn’t chance.

Ok I am just reading a Telegraph article about Japan. They are very, very interventionist.
‘Adapting the Japanese “metabo” law is something he would also encourage in workplaces across the UK. The law, which was introduced in 2008, requires every Japanese citizen between 40 and 74 to meet required waistline sizes each year. Those who fail are offered counselling and incentivised to lose weight. Businesses can be fined if too many workers fall short. ‘
😮
Obesity in Japan

And in a similar vein, a lot get driven to school/breakfast club etc because parents have to drop them off and drive straight to work. I drop mine off at 8.35 and have to be at work 20 mins away for 9.

As a young child in the early to late 80s my diet was full of UPFs. Sausages, penguin biscuits, twix, club biscuits, wafer thin ham, store bought pizza, angel delight, instant whip, sweets galore from my grandmother, white bread, crisps, those frozen mousse things, ice cream, ice lollies, Mr Kipling cakes. My typical lunch consisted ham or dairylea sandwiches, a twix/club/penguin/animal bar, crisps, ski yogurt and a can of Pepsi or Coke or lilt. I was a skinny child and most of my friends were the same. We had one fat child in our class who had a learning disability that may have influenced her weight. I ate bacon for breakfast most days. Dinner was usually meat and two veg or fish and same but followed by angel delight etc. If I had pizza I ate a whole one to myself. We didn't walk loads.

It's nonsense that UPFs weren't around until fairly recently.

As for that doctor who wrote Ultra Processed People? Any doctor who says humans can change sex isn't one I'm going to take any notice of.

I don't eat many UFPs now because I prefer to eat food that I've made myself and find so called junk more expensive than making my own and it doesn't taste great. Nothing beats a homemade veggie lasagne or cake. My bmi is 21/22.

While there are definitely additional factors that make weight loss/control more difficult for some folk (hormone imbalances, insulin resistance, PCOS, etc and other health problems that affect metabolism you are still very much subject to the calories in/out energy balance equation and at the end of the day if you can achieve calorie defecit you will losse weight. It is the people who think they are excluded from being subject to the laws of thermodynamics that I take issue with who go on to make daft statements of the exercise makes no difference variety.

Radio 4 just now: there are 4.2 million children in food poverty 😮

That’s interesting although culturally I say more acceptable

I can’t see it going down well here

That kind of stuff probably really helped them during the pandemic, their figures were always good for the response they had

@StandInTheThunder What would you identify as the cause(s), then?

@waistchallenge there's are many factors to obesity but it's down to personal choice. Blaming the government, food manufacturers etc takes the onus of control away from the individual. We all have a responsibility to ourselves to look after our health. Some might need help to do that but it's up to the individual to eat healthily and in moderation. I don't think the government or food companies will ever do anything because as long as people keep buying unhealthy foods at the rate they do then they will continue to make them. It's up to us not to eat too much of things that aren't healthy. No one is being force fed here.

No, we aren’t being force fed but the way our society is organised is like putting gambling addicts in a casino and expecting them not to gamble. Society should ensure that the default, easiest and cheapest option is the one that is most beneficial to our health.

If you look at Maslow's Heirachy of Needs the Tories screwed it from the bottom up. They need to start there and give people happier lives (2nd most miserable country in the world). That would reduce a lot of the health problems the nation faces.

I think sandwichs are the work of the devil. I started slowly losing weight when I switched to a proper meal at lunchtime, something like chicken and rice. But most commercially available foods that you could grab on the go don’t have enough protein to keep me full. I basically figured out that I need about 40g at lunch to prevent me overeating for the rest of the day.

I think the point about UPF’s is probably important for general health but for me the amount of protein is the key to satiety.

I would really like the people who are arguing against intervention and saying it all comes down to personal responsibility to clarify for me what they mean, because it seems like you are saying ‘and there is nothing whatsoever we can do about it’ - if individuals don’t get a grip (which there is no sign of them doing) the country will just have to get fatter and sicker.

Have I misunderstood? Is that what you mean? If not, what do the ‘personal responsibility/no to Nanny State’ team think is the solution? What is going to happen?

I don’t think there is much the government can do except for taxing upf foods heavily which may hurt people who are already struggling. At some point we all do have to be responsible for ourselves.

I think it starts with school meals. There was a BBC report yesterday with a Headteacher apologising for his school's dreadful school meal offering. It was really bad - and served in plastic fast food boxes with wooden forks. Grim for both the kids and the envirnoment.

They should bring back school cooks cooking proper food served on crockery with knives and forks. How do our children stand a chance of learning healthy eating habits when we throw below fast food standard shit at them everyday?