Anyone starting Zoe in November?

[alloutofcareunits]

Not just about weight loss but thought this might be the best place to post the thread. I've just signed up and should be starting in November, wondering if anyone else is and wants to share experiences?

Looks good to me, except the big drop after white bread....your fasting blood sugar is way better than mine.

@hippospot my brown bread score is 14.

@hippospot
Same!

Blood Glucose - Poor 41
Fat - Good 60
Gut - Excellent 85

Given that my microbiome is excellent. I'm wondering if I'm just seeing the effect of bad genes re glucose?

I’m doing my test day. Breakfast cookies and poo sample done so far. Only been scanning my CGM about twice an hour 😆

I'm doing my test day today too. Those cookies were vile. It took me ages to eat them and I gagged towards the end!

Roll on the blue cookies at lunchtime.... 🤢

Be aware that the first couple of days you will probably get a lot of low blood sugar warnings while it calibrates.

Hahaha! I thought the same - this will put me off cookies for life. I'm going to eat sooo many vegetables tonight!

Be aware that the first couple of days you will probably get a lot of low blood sugar warnings while it calibrates.

Thank you! So far I’m looking pretty pre-diabetic ☹️

Hi all - can I join the thread please...?

I'm on day 8 of the ZOE trial, and have been blogging about it day-by-day with pics and results of experiments here, if anyone is interested:

https://wellitywellness.com/tag/zoe-trial/

I've not had the results yet, so can't comment on its overall value. My two cents so far - and disclaimer upfront in that I am a bit of a Tim Spector fan girl (read all his books) and follower of the ZOE podcast, which have collectively helped me dig my way out of a difficult time in my life and have driven a lot of positive changes to diet and lifestyle already as a result (e.g. increased biodiversity, cutting out ultra-processed food etc.).

So, in terms of the actual trial, I've gone the whole hog - though I totally get people's concerns around the aggressive use of data, re-packaging of 'common sensical' advice and of course the expense. Curiosity got the better of me here, is all I can say!

Speaking personally, I'm really finding the blood glucose monitor insightful - oats and cous cous are off the table for evermore, that's for sure - but I only now realise I could have done that just by buying a £60 quid Libre 2 off Amazon instead... Though then I wouldn't be getting the microbiome analysis too - I've not received mine yet, but I guess you could argue that having it is a bit of a moot point: your microbiome not something you can change over night, so whatever the results yo get, you'd have to take a long-term approach to improving it through diet and lifestyle choices over time anyhow.

I found the first day tests straightforward and the morning cookies at least pretty tasty - struggled a bit getting blood for the finger prick test, but nothing to write home about.

I had one 5 minute blip on the app when it stopped looking up foods, but aside from that pretty good. I am not enjoying the little quizzes, but that's because I've come into this very familiar with the subject matter through the podcast and the books - they would be helpful I think if you were coming at it fresh here. I agree that the 'coaching' is pretty minimal / AI driven, and the support is limited - though in fairness I haven't had cause to use it much.

Is it emperor's new clothes...? In terms of understanding your blood glucose reactions, getting insight into the content / health of your microbiome and the longer-term step change it heralds into individualised nutrition, etc., I don't think so personally - but ultimately you could skip the trial, save your money and still follow the general advice to pretty much the same end...

Anyhoo, I'll be updating the blog for the next week and look forward to joining in with the thread here as well!

Snap

I've had the blue cookies. They were a bit harder to get down. I am craving proper food and some caffeine.

I've still got half of one left to go. It's taking me ages and I feel sick!

You're allowed black coffee - that's really helping me!

Roll on 3.40....

I had to drink a fair bit of green tea with mine

I don't drink coffee, needs to be something like a Pepsi Max for me. Right now, I have a headache and am not looking forward to the blood letting.

@Incogg did you look at your blood glucose after the cookies? Often the things that make us feel bad are those things that are spiking sugar. Ive realised now that i always felt good eating lentils because they wernt spiking me

Yes, I've had spikes after eating the cookies. I am feeling really ill now and have terrible heart burn. Wondering if it's related to Zoe or just a conincidence.

Does anyone know what scanning the CGM does? Isn't the device always taking readings and sending them to my phone?

(We're having lentils for tea and I can't wait).

Does anyone know what scanning the CGM does? Isn't the device always taking readings and sending them to my phone?

No, the ones you get with Zoe are an older model, they seem to store up to 8hrs of data but only send to the phone when you scan. That's why it says you need to scan it at least every 8 hours which is a bit of a nuisance if you want a lie in, But if you scan last thing at night and first thing in the morning and it's a bit over 8 hrs there will just be a little bit of the trace missing - hopefully at a time when not a lot is happening.

I think I've got a couple of fake dips at night if I sleep on my left arm... trying to avoid that!

Ahh, thank you that makes perfect sense.

Absolute bliss to eat some proper food this evening!!

My results are back - 13 days after I posted them.

Blood sugar control - 61 - good
Blood fat control - 71 - good
Microbiome - 61 - good

I'm also a vegetarian with a not very diverse biome - over 50% of my bacteria were the one called "Patrick"...

My top bug is not one of the highlighted ones, it's called Akkermansia municipilia but it seems benign. That one is 13 percent of my biome. My top highlighted bug is "oscar" and I have no "Patrick"!

@2bluecookies Sounds like you're good for 4 blue cookies!

I have a gripe with Zoe. I think my poor glucose control stems from having very low muscle mass. This isn't a random idea as muscle is the storage depot for glucose. So I am on a weight training program which requires me to eat 100g of protein per day. The trouble is that Zoe scores all the foods I have to eat to get to 100g as low. If I believed Zoe all the way I would just be eating salad and vegetable protein and struggling to get anywhere near 100g, especially without carb overload. If I ate the Zoe way - sure I would control sugar a little better in the short term but the long term plan is to increase muscle mass. I have maxed out the ability of my microbiome to control sugar as it is classed as "Excellent". So, I would say that Zoe doesn't promote muscle gain as the sustainable long term solution to poor glucose control and as such is a bit wanting. Following this program to the letter does not solve my problem so I am using bits of it but adding things like protein powder and prioritising animal protein.

@Memeapple have you tried contacting the Zoe people for advice on this? I assume this is what we're paying for!

Also, have you listened to any of the Zoe podcasts about protein?

Thank you for sharing those thoughts @Memeapple . I'm picking up on different fora that there's some skepticism around some of the Zoe advice. I guess my take is to not completely throw myself in to chasing the numbers (which I know I may be tempted to out of competitiveness and perfectionism).

How are people finding their results? Is the microbe information useful? I think they started off by naming them, didn't they? But recently they've expanded the results to cover many more strains..?

@hippospot Sorry that probably sounded too moany! I will talk to them but their stance on protein is pretty clear. They think the US requirements are fine for most people. Their focus is on the microbiome, which is fine except for the surreptitious idea that everything is fixed with an good microbiome. As someone who always ate a wide range of greens and has been eating natto (fermented soy beans) for 5 years, has an excellent microbiome but still has poor glucose control I am living proof that microbiome isn't everything, though I accept, it's probably good to make it as good as it can be.

I have to say as a positive that my body is much happier with some of their suggestions. I have felt more full and contented. And the keto bread is a bafflingly great substitute to bread, for an ex bread monster like me.