Anyone starting Zoe in November?

[alloutofcareunits]

Not just about weight loss but thought this might be the best place to post the thread. I've just signed up and should be starting in November, wondering if anyone else is and wants to share experiences?

Bit confused, you seem to be talking about two different things there - d-mannose (a sugar) and Pycnogenol (a polyphenol). Do you mean the pine bark extract suppplement contains them both?

So, @SoySaucePls I looked at @Memeapple's results and noticed that she had higher than average levels of bacteroides coprocola. I tried googling this, but got a bit lost.
Would you say a little about how you interrogated this data? What would your process be with bacteroides coprocola for example?

@Memeapple’s results do throw up some interesting things to look at.

@Incogg you’re right that bacteria does look like it may have something to do with Memeapple’s high blood sugar scores as it’s linked to type 2 diabetes.

Her first three top bacteria look to be protective of high blood sugar although I’d suggest they do all look a bit high overall.

I have a high level of b uniformis. It’s a great bacteria but at 40% I’d class that as an overgrowth and I think it’s sensitising my immune system so it’s overly reactive.

Im no authority at all so take what I write next with a pinch of salt:

1. she has a high level of bacteroides. Her top three and many below are all bacteroides. It may be her firmicutes are too low and other bacterial species are too low too. Anything higher than 10% of the overall gut of any species to me looks too high. Ideally you want lots of good bacteria at lower levels and lots of them. Then also you want a decent balance between firmicutes and bacteroides
2. the bacteria you found Incogg does show a link to type2 diabetes https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-017-0232-3
3. She is low in Akkermansia and this can have an impact on blood sugar. Look at Pendulum which may help if you want to supplement. Halle Berry uses it and is a brand ambassador. She has diabetes and has don’t for many years.
4. she is low in bifidobacteria although she does at least have a good range of strains which is excellent her health im sure would improve if she could boost these.
5. your faecelium praunitzii is low. This is a great butyrate producer. Everyone needs more butyrate. Look up ways to boost this bug.

MemeApple I think if you started with trying to correct some of these things you might get some results. Hope that helps.

@SoySaucePls

I was thinking of adding a prebiotic rather than pro as it the microbiome is so complicated that just adding strains seems less likely to get a good result than helping create an environment which potentiates balance. What do you think?

50% is high for one bacteria. Do you feel good? If yes then no need to change. Everyone is different.

Having lower levels of insulin is a good thing.

Type2 diabetes becomes more likely as we grow older due to insulin resistance that happens in some people.

For some reason (maybe gut related) the cells in our body stop responding to insulin so the pancreas makes more and more in an effort to get the cells to respond and convert the glucose to be stored as energy for later use.

When this doesn’t happen you can end up with high insulin levels in your blood and yet still too much glucose in your blood too every time you eat, which leads to a high reading on the monitor.

Theres a guy on TikTok called InsulinResistance1 who runs all sorts of blood sugar tests with different foods. It’s an interesting watch though it doesn’t sound like you need it 😊

I have an overactive bladder and it’s associated with having high eggetherella lenta which I’m high in. I’ve been working to bring it down.

For UTIs there’s a microbial signature too.

this may be helpful. You could look up the study and find the bacteria that are missing

https://www.broadinstitute.org/news/repeated-urinary-tract-infections-may-stem-disrupted-microbiome

Try raising bifidobacteria and then after lactobacillus.

Bifido first as it doesn’t generate histamine and most of us with inflammation don’t need any more histamine. Lactobacillus after you’ve adjusted to bifido.

Seeking Health have a bifido only supplement. Single strains are also available other places. It’s quite a search though. I prefer human strain to non human.

I don’t take any as supplements like Inulin etc as they would feed my overgrowths.

Any prebiotic supplement I looked at would feed my b fragilis and my b uniformis both already high. So I decided to take nothing.

Maybe some questions to ask:

Will this prebiotic grow more of abc or not? Would that be a good or bad thing? What else would grow or diminish?

Are you reaching 30g of different kinds of fibre a day?

Natural food-based ones could be interesting - You could just try a few days on different ones and see what you think, how you feel.

I take my bifido supplement at the moment with a greenish banana and it loves that extra boost of prebiotic fibre. My poos are like perfect poos with this combination 🤣 sorry for probably too much info!

Despite eating a ton of fibre I’m still prone to constipation and it’s because I have too many bacteria producing LPS (lipopolysaccharides) which are really not good for you. Inflammatory.

I'm starting to feel we should move this to the gardening board!

@SoySaucePls I do have high eggetherella lenta - thanks for that info!

@SoySaucePls

Averaging about 20-25g fibre.

Thank you. Your replies are very interesting on this thread!
I do not feel good, I feel tired all the time and generally run down. I struggle to lose weight. I find I really have to cut back on my calories to lose weight. The minute I take my eye off the ball, I put on weight. I crave chocolate all the time. I was hoping doing Zoe would help with that but it hasn’t yet. But I feel like I’ve not given it a proper go yet.

Has anyone noticed any mention of:

• how much water we drink?
• benefits of carbs being frozen and defrosted?
• exercise?

In case it matters, I am at the stage of having received my results but not yet starting my plan.

@Greenthread Zoe are controversial in the microbiome world putting Prevotella Copri as a good bug.

It can be a good bug but it must have other good commensual bacteria with it.

I’ve seen many many cases of people feeling unwell with high Prevotella Copri.

When Zoe came out and put it as a good bug, there were a lot of raised eyebrows.

Id suggest then in that case looking into ways to lowering it.

I know doing this - manipulating the gut bacteria personally - is very difficult to do as there’s research out there but it takes a long time to look into and it can be conflicting and you have to look at your entire mix to some extent.

It can be very hard to work out where to start.

I’m glad my posts have been useful. It’s sad as Zoe is an excellent idea but we all need so much more help and I think the scores though lovely to believe in are a very early days at truly understanding the gut microbiome. There’s still masses they and all the other microbiome scientists still don’t understand.

Im away at the moment but when I get home I’m going to experiment at length with the bifido yogurt.

I’ll come back here at a later date probably in a month or two if I manage to get it working and update with my results if that would be helpful?

I’m going to buy in a bifido infantis strain from America that im hoping will reset my gut in some way. I think that’s the one I want to start with and see if I can reset things. It has some evidence of killing off b fragilis.

Bifidobacteria dominates the infant gut, in an ideal world, and slowly reduces over time. But as adults we should still have some.

Ive got none and a long history of antibiotic usage so hopefully fingers crossed I’ll get some benefits from re-instating them. Feel like a lab rat. But what else is there to do?

Quite a few references to the “internal garden” by microbiome bods so spot on! 😆

It’s sad as Zoe is an excellent idea but we all need so much more help and I think the scores though lovely to believe in are a very early days at truly understanding the gut microbiome. There’s still masses they and all the other microbiome scientists still don’t understand.

I don't think it's 'sad' - just reality that this is quite a new area, and part of the point of participating is to help the scientists gather more data.

I am dwelling now on how my diet has changed over the years and when I’ve mentally felt the best. I gave up alcohol, sugar, went low carb, hardly ate any gluten etc a few years ago and I felt amazing. I was happy in a way I’ve never felt before. I was also tiny, lighter than I’d been since I was at school. But the bad habits slowly crept back in and now i weigh more than ever and i feel anxious and depressed all the time. I hate the way I look and I hate seeing people cos I think they must be thinking ‘she’s put on weight!’ I would love to know what my gut microbiome was like then compared with what it’s like now on my pre-Zoe diet which was a lot of chocolate, wine and sugar-free fizzy drinks.

I am so disappointed in myself ATM
All the wine - half a bottle a day - puddings, bread etc.
I feel like I have undone all the good work I did in those 8 weeks.

There's loads left. Literally loads.
Shopping delivery comes today. I hope it puts me back on the better path.

Although it's an arbitrary day, New Years is often a good motivator to get back on the wagon with diet and/or exercise. Though I usually give myself a pass on jan 1st as it's my birthday.

Maybe someone should start a new Zoë thread for the year tomorrow or Monday?

2024 thread sounds good! Perhaps @allalloutofcareunits could start one if they agree? I do like a clean slate, although apart from a disaster involving chocolate oranges I've not done too badly over Christmas. I do need a bit of variety though, especially at breakfast where I've found a high scoring combo and not moved away from it.

Also up for a clean slate thread! Meanwhile trying to end the year with more fibre and more variety - made the Green Smashed Pea dip for lunch with added avocado and it was super delicious

I am anticipating this week being my worst average score since I started Zoe. My highest score has been 50 and my lowest has been 28. Oooopps.

I'm up for a Zoe thread. I put the device on 3 days ago, been logging food but still doing the erratic eating aka cheese week.

Don't really know what I am l doing but looking to learn more.

Have started a new thread - Zoe 2024 - but can't link from the app.....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/weight_loss_chat/4974715-zoe-2024-a-clean-slate

ive been waiting for this so I can join in!

Thanks Pear! See you over there!