Why are people still counting calories when it doesn’t work

[Ifyoubelieveyouwill]

Just that really. I don’t understand why people are still counting calories when the science shows it doesn’t work and makes you gain more weight in the long term. As a 20 year yo-yo dieter I’m proof calorie counting leads to obesity over time.

Now the scientific evidence is conclusive that it’s the nutritional quality of food that matters for weight loss. Not the calories in/ calories out equation. I wonder why diets like WW and Noom are still so popular.

Have people just missed the memo? Not being goady, I’m just wondering whether people feel the short term weight loss is worth it.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

I have some amazingly self disciplined friends who stay slim by weighing regularly and reining themselves in when they go 2 or 3lb above their ideal weight. How I wish I'd learned to do this years ago.

This is pretty much me. It's not really self discipline though, at least not for me, it's just my lifestyle and I think that's the problem. People think that 'slim' people are super restrictive or always on a diet - but for most of them it's just that they naturally moderate themselves around food without thinking that much about it. The person who is very overweight and is trying to 'diet', isn't really doing that - in fact they are probably very aware of what they are eating. But that's something that is hard to maintain and even harder to enjoy.

I'm a size 8 and haven't been above a size 10 for about twenty years (I'm 41). I'm not incredibly disciplined or have an iron will or anything, I eat pretty much anything, but I'm so used to eating a certain amount or a certain way that I regulate my calorie intake without really noticing it. If you saw me at a party or out to dinner you would think I'm a big eater, I enjoy food a lot, but I just don't eat like that all the time. It's pretty automatic for me now. This is the behaviour that's really difficult to learn for people who have maybe lost sight of how much or what foods to eat.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's kind of straightforward to be slim if you always have been, because that's what you've learned to do. But if you are trying to lose weight, especially a significant amount, there is much more that needs to be addressed than just the number of calories.

OP this article explains things pretty well - www.precisionnutrition.com/metabolic-damage

But I can also say as someone with a long history of anorexia that the only reason I've gained more weight after a relapse is because I'm eating more calories than I need, not because of my metabolism. Otherwise people wouldn't keep losing weight, and trust me, although it gets slower because as you get smaller you burn off less because you don't have size to maintain. That's how I nearly starved to death several times and I still have to really try to gain weight even now.

@mistermagpie yep the science confirms exactly what you’re describing. Our bodies are really good at controlling our weight around a set point. It’s efficient up to .2kg. You come back from holiday after overeating and it naturally adjusts downwards.

That is until your set weight point is shifted upwards by life events, dieting/ overeating cycles, over consumption of UPF/ sugar. There is a chapter in “How We Eat” which explains how this works in terms of appetite and metabolism.

Once your weight starts escalating up into an obese BMI, it becomes really hard for your body to regulate itself, you can become Leptin and insulin resistant.

For people who are morbidly obese (not me) it is practically impossible for them to lose weight without weight loss surgery as the body at this point is incredibly resistant to losing weight - no amount of willpower is enough to overcome the hormones and signals their body is sending to the brain in their desire to consume often unhealthy foods.

The morbidly obese will normally need medical intervention to lose weight. A gastric sleeve removes the part of the stomach which produces a hormone which signals hunger (gherlin). That’s how it works now, people naturally lose a lot of weight and keep it off as they have a low appetite. Previously, they fitted gastric bands and lots of people apparently succumb to the hunger hormone by eating liquid calories like ice cream because it’s all they can get into their stomach. I saw a lady in my local shop with a trolley full of ice cream- extremely obese so I’m guessing that’s what she was doing. It’s a compulsion and not something they can control (who would want to live life like that).

sorry the hormone is called ghrelin

@DonnieDark yes I agree - a lot of what is in the article is based on the science I’ve read, which has informed my view.

So someone who is a conscientious calorie counting 1600 per day could in fact be consuming as little as 1200 calories or as many as 2000 depending on the nutritional composition of the food.

Sorry to hear about your challenges that’s sounds really tough, I hope you are doing better now.

sorry are you qualified to be telling people all this??

or is it stuff you've read on the internet where another site will have an opposing opinion to the one you promoting?

For anyone interested in reading about the science of appetite and why calorie counting is not an effective weight management tool long term for lots of people, along with the article, I’d recommend:

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-We-Eat-Too-Much/dp/024140052X?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

www.amazon.co.uk/Spoon-Fed-Almost-Everything-About-Wrong/dp/B0874YLXKB/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=tim+spector&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1623783995&sr=8-1

www.amazon.co.uk/Pure-White-Deadly-Sugar-Killing/dp/024125745X/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=sugar+book&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1623783752&sr=8-6

www.amazon.co.uk/Fat-Chance-Hidden-Obesity-Disease/dp/000751414X/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=sugar+book&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1623783752&sr=8-10

www.amazon.co.uk/8-Week-Blood-Sugar-Diet-Recipe/dp/1780722931/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=sugar+book&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1623783752&sr=8-2

@NBFJ364N it’s quoted from the article linked to above. I’m not qualified. I’m on the weight loss chat board on mumsnet. You don’t have to be qualified to post your opinion on here ... pretty sure there is a disclaimer telling mumsnetters to seek their own medical advice. I’m guessing you’re a nutritionist

What ever your experience you can't project that onto everyone.

My experience is that I lost 3 stone about 9 years ago through calories counting what I ate and how much I moved. It worked, brilliantly and quickly as I lost it in about 3 months. Since then I have not put on more than half a stone and when I do I count again until my weight is back where I want it to be.

It has worked every time.

You have to be diligent and honest about it.

I understand this may not work for everyone but you are so wrong to say that science shows it doesn't work and just leads to putting weight back on.

Whatever the nutritional quality of the food you eat you will put weight on if you eat too much of it.

I think success in Weight loss is more about your mental ability to control your eating and how well you are able to stick to whatever method you use.

You need to burn more calories then you eat..

Calorie deficit helps to lose weight Ive lost 2st since January doing it (1200 a day) with one day a week at 1600 (weekend day)

Currently maintaining for now on 1700 a day but will start 1200 a day again soon to aim for another half a stone. I've learnt I can lose on 1200, maintain at 1700 and gain if I go over 1800

[quote Ifyoubelieveyouwill]@NBFJ364N it’s quoted from the article linked to above. I’m not qualified. I’m on the weight loss chat board on mumsnet. You don’t have to be qualified to post your opinion on here ... pretty sure there is a disclaimer telling mumsnetters to seek their own medical advice. I’m guessing you’re a nutritionist [/quote]
guess away

er, you are parroting all this stuff you've read....random quotes....no mention of moving more really is there...

the thread is moving quickly OP.
knowing caloric values of different foods is important and i also like knowing the glycemic index of different foods and will refer to the index to make certain meal choices based on that information.
but knowing how the metabolizes food is another part of the puzzle along with knowing about your own body type (age, and musculature).
i work hard to not dip into the overweight range. and it on my mind with each meal choice. not in an all consuming way but a planning way not much different than personal finances and spending.
keeping fit (cardio, resistance weights etc) helps the body utilize the food energy we take in.
sadly the weight loss industry is an industry and they wouldn't be in business if there was an easy fix or miracle cure. i think they perpetuate the myth that you can't do weight loss on your own.
the info you've linked indeed has been on the internet for a long period and i don't feel it is really up to date on what is currently available (injectables vs wt loss surgery).
for me the key is activity with reasonable portions and lower carb when possible.

@NBFJ364N Ok.... well I can guess that you’re a rude person speaking to me like that. I’m sharing my experience and the reading I’ve done, on a forum where as far as I know (until mumsnet says otherwise) I am free to do so. We’re talking about diet, not exercise.

I have actually have a physical disability, so running etc is not possible for me. I exercise daily, but why should I justify myself

You should really think about how you come across, you’ve been rude and you should apologise.

You have upset me so I’m leaving this thread now- and mumsnet where I’ve got support for weight loss. So a big round of applause to you if you are a nutritionist or in a similar role.

Anyway I’m off now and signing off mumsnet. This is not a supportive place for people struggling with obesity and trying to find a different way to lose weight long term.

Thank you to all the kind posters, who even if you disagreed, were supportive and kind to someone suffering with obesity and trying to change their life, unlike this poster.

Well it's worked for me for 5 years Being in a calorie deficit causes you to lose weight and counting the calories you take in is the only way to fully ensure you're in one.

What you've said is perfectly reasonable OP, but with this thread you are doing what everyone who struggles with their weight has done at some point. You try a new diet/way of eating, and for the first few months, it's working. The motivation is there, it seems almost easy, you feel great, the weight is coming off. You think why didn't I do this before, why doesn't everyone just do this?! You tell everyone. A few more months pass, you get bored, busy, there are special events, stress, injury, pregnancy, a bereavement. Junk food creeps back in and before you know it you are back to where you started.

As some have stated that's the only way to make sure you follow a calorie deficit plan. Besides, that's a good opportunity to control yourself if you have messed up relationships with food. The result depends on many factors though, if one counts the calories burnt and relies on it then weight gain can happen because it's easy to believe that you've burned much more than you actually did. If you watch only the calorie intake then I think you should be fine. Here is an article about other reasons it may not work- www.thelist.com/34289/calorie-counting-isnt-working/ It may not be your thing, OP, but in general it works.

To me it's a motivation factor as well, along with a constant usage of a body editor as I strongly believe in visualizing haha. I don't trust automatic calorie calculators that tell you the 'right' amount of calories per day basing on your weight solely, though. These numbers are just ridiculous.

Intrigued by this thread but nothing to add apart from this I spotted today as health is even more important in a pandemic killing obesity.

Juventus ace Ronaldo 'drink water' push wipes $4 BILLION off Coca Cola's market value

www.tribalfootball.com/articles/juventus-ace-ronaldo-drink-water-push-wipes-4-billion-off-coca-cola-s-market-value-4374516

Will done Cristiano Ronaldo - sport and junk foods and drinks is the biggest own goal contradiction! That said I will discretely consume the last few classic glass bottles of "Diet" Coca Cola zero which I use as mixers. Not in front of child of course as we back in the day when a child did not have as much nutritional knowledge nor current convenience (lazy) new ultra processed junk foods created in food labs these days. Not a saint as balance and perspective is key including all food groups. Balanced diet, super foods, good nutrition and fluids with appropriate exercise and rest to detox and destress.

Good for him! Soda is completely banned in my house along with most breakfast cereals. It’s a hard no.

@Sweetener12

As some have stated that's the only way to make sure you follow a calorie deficit plan. Besides, that's a good opportunity to control yourself if you have messed up relationships with food. The result depends on many factors though, if one counts the calories burnt and relies on it then weight gain can happen because it's easy to believe that you've burned much more than you actually did. If you watch only the calorie intake then I think you should be fine. Here is an article about other reasons it may not work- www.thelist.com/34289/calorie-counting-isnt-working/ It may not be your thing, OP, but in general it works. To me it's a motivation factor as well, along with a constant usage of a body editor as I strongly believe in visualizing haha. I don't trust automatic calorie calculators that tell you the 'right' amount of calories per day basing on your weight solely, though. These numbers are just ridiculous.

I think there’s a control element that goes along with long term calorie counting. My suspicion it will be desirable to the type A personality. The same people who are writing lists and setting reminders on their calendar are also adding foods to their app.

Lol, it does work though for people who actually do it.

If you mean it doesn't work for the people who don't do it, then you're right. But that doesn't change the fact that if you maintain a caloric deficit you'll lose weight, if you eat too many calories above maintenance you'll gain weight, and if you stick to your maintenance calories you'll maintain.

I don’t understand why people are still counting calories when the science shows it doesn’t work and makes you gain more weight in the long term. As a 20 year yo-yo dieter I’m proof calorie counting leads to obesity over time.

That's the most batshit thing I've seen on here all day. The science says no such thing. And you being obese doesn't mean calorie counting doesn't work. It means you haven't calorie counted and stuck with it. This is such a weird thread.

It's almost like a psychological defence mechanism.

If calorie counting works, and I'm obese, it means I haven't put enough effort and willpower into maintaining a healthy weight. Therefore my size is my choice. So it must actually be that calorie counting doesn't work. There, that's better. It isn't my fault. It's the fault of calorie counting.

I mean, people do manage to lose weight and keep it off all the time, so if you're so sure calorie counting doesn't work why haven't you lose weight with one of the other methods people successfully use? Oh, maybe they all don't work. Maybe it's impossible to lose and keep weight off. Despite the reality that thousands, millions of people have done it...

Not sure that you really need to be on top of ‘the science’ to work out it’s better not to eat junk 24 hours a day, regardless of the calories.

People who are against the dogma of CICO are trying to get others to understand there is more going on. The nutritional content of the food IS important. It’s not good enough to say 100 cals from Haribo are the same as 100 cals from a hard boiled egg. A dog is a dog but we know a Great Dane is wired differently to a Chihuahua.

What we need is better testing to determine what diet is correct for the individual. Personalised medicine is becoming more wide spread and I think they’ll be a trickle-down effect eventually where diet plans can be tailored to the individual.

People who are against the dogma of CICO are trying to get others to understand there is more going on. The nutritional content of the food IS important. It’s not good enough to say 100 cals from Haribo are the same as 100 cals from a hard boiled egg. A dog is a dog but we know a Great Dane is wired differently to a Chihuahua.
I see what you're saying, but I'm yet to meet anyone who wants to lose weight who cuts their calories and uses their daily calories to consume harribo.

I don't think anyone genuine goes on a diet/moves to make healthy choices and thinks "OK, ill reduce my calories and consume them all in crisps and sweets and white bread".

What strikes me about a lot of people arguing that calories in calories out doesn't work usually end up revealing that actually they paid no attention to their food choices, or they chose to keep snacking, or they restricted their calories too much and then binged out, or they went through yoyo diet patterns. None of those are issues with the principles of monitoring calories. They're all actions and choices of the person dieting, it's just comforting for some people to blame the diet than acknowledge their own agency.

A successful diet is only one that can be sustainable and long term. Hence needing one that is tailored to the individual.

We all have different priorities, preferences and lifestyles. I for one hate cooking. Don’t want to fuck about making a meal unless I absolutely have to. I want to eat quickly, feel satiated and get on with something else. Miriam down the road might LOVE to cook and chocolate might be so important to her she has to eat it daily. John might have a Diet Coke addiction he refuses to kick.

It’s too simplistic to say CICO and you will lose weight consistently and reach your goal weight. What normally happens is the dieter loses some weight, then the weight loss stalls, then they give up and goes back to old habits and because their metabolism has reduced alongside their lower weight rhey then pile on the old weight plus more. So it’s REALLY important to find a WOE that doesn’t feel like deprivation. Deprivation generally leads to bingeing.

I was always slim until I started a medication which slightly increased my appetite 10 years ago.

I put on weight and stayed overweight for a decade even though I came off the medication after 3 years, because I was in the habit of over eating.

In January I started to eat less by counting calories. I eat exactly the same foods just less of them. I have now lost weight.

My dh has been eating healthy foods which fill you up. His diet is very prescriptive and hugely different from how he used to eat. He has also lost weight although I can't see how he will manage to continue his diet long term.

Imo all diets work but if they differ radically from how you want to eat, you will loose weight, give up the diet and pile it all back on plus more.