Why are people still counting calories when it doesn’t work

[Ifyoubelieveyouwill]

Just that really. I don’t understand why people are still counting calories when the science shows it doesn’t work and makes you gain more weight in the long term. As a 20 year yo-yo dieter I’m proof calorie counting leads to obesity over time.

Now the scientific evidence is conclusive that it’s the nutritional quality of food that matters for weight loss. Not the calories in/ calories out equation. I wonder why diets like WW and Noom are still so popular.

Have people just missed the memo? Not being goady, I’m just wondering whether people feel the short term weight loss is worth it.

Yo-yoing and falling off the wagon are problems with literally all diets, not just CICO. If this weren't the case, everyone would be doing the magic diet that people can actually stick to, and we wouldn't have an obesity crisis
CICO isn't a diet though. It's a fairly common sense approach to building a healthy diet (and by diet I mean the food we eat, not weight loss plan).

I don't get the silly 'magic diet' comment. It isn't about having a magic diet. It's about adults taking responsibility of what they put in their mouths instead of always having an excuse.

CICO can be done by meticulously logging numbers if that's needed to help get an idea of portion sizes, but the principle still works for people who adjust their food based on their activity levels. Both involve people finding the right balance of calories and exercise for their body.

The fact some people aren't successful at managing their food intake isn't a problem of the CICO approach.
More often than not it seems to be:
CICO doesn't work because...
I chose to pick a random number to limit my calories to instead of picking a sensible number that is sustainable long term. When I wasnt able to live on 600 calories a day, I concluded the problem is CICO and I shall present CICO as synonymous with highly restrictive diets.
I chose to group foods by good foods and bad foods, and deny myself anything in the bad food group. Unsurprisingly banning everything I like didn't work and i ended up binging on high fat, high sugar, treat foods. The fact I didn't take a healthy approach to a balanced diet proves CICO doesn't work.
I didn't pay any attention to the nutritional value of the food i put in my mouth, so when I consumed a day's worth of empty calories by lunchtime and was still hungry, I decided the problem was that counting calories doesn't work
I didn't pay attention to portion sizes when counting calories so was serving myself more than the calories I was counting. CICO doesn't work because I gained weight whilst eating more than the calories I logged.
I have myself cheat days, or treats that didn't count, rather than do the healthy thing of having a bit of everything in moderation

@GalesThisMorning

Ah. It is low carb. I would hate that, but it seems like it's working well for you. I have a wood fired pizza oven and make pizza once a week, which fits in my diet. As does pasta and a whole host of other things I would hate to give up!! Low carb would be completely unsustainable for me.

I hope you too meet your goals.

But I’m eating what you’re eating from the sounds of it!! Why would you hate that? 🤣

I also eat pasta, just a low carb version which h means I can eat more of it lol

@justanotherneighinparadise it is possible to eat too much even on low carb. I have done it. Great initially then I plateaued. Then adjusted portions and lost the rest of the weight. Thing is if you've a small frame, which I have, you should be at the lower end of the "healthy" BMI. My frame/ body type requires simply less food. I discovered this through FitBit and the like. I'm a healthy weight at the lowest end of healthy BMI, with a healthy fat percentage now and am fairly toned. Now if I want to lose more fat I would need to build more muscle which is a whole other game. I don't get overly hungry but I do monitor what I eat (calories and sometimes macros too) and weigh myself because takeaway portions or a meal out could cause me to put weight on just through being sociable really.

The magic diet is one that naturally curbs your appetite. It’s amazing. It requires no calorie counting as you’re rarely hungry and so don’t overeat.

I know - I've done low carb. I lost lots of weight. Just as I did on a low fat diet (which I had no choice about doing, as I had gallstones). Guess what? I fell off both wagons, just as the majority do on any diet, including your magic low carb diet.

Yes, it absolutely does reduce your appetite, and I absolutely believe in its benefits. My DF went low carb, lost a load of weight (though he wasn't very overweight), reversed his sleep apnoea and pre-diabetes and came off his statins. But he has a will of iron! Most people don't manage it. It's still a restrictive and unforgiving diet.

I ate porridge with maple syrup for breakfast, risotto for lunch and spaghetti bolognese for dinner. Nothing modified about any of it, just smaller portions accompanied by tons of veg. If that's what low carbing looks like then I guess we're both doing it

@grasstreeleaf

@justanotherneighinparadise it is possible to eat too much even on low carb. I have done it. Great initially then I plateaued. Then adjusted portions and lost the rest of the weight. Thing is if you've a small frame, which I have, you should be at the lower end of the "healthy" BMI. My frame/ body type requires simply less food. I discovered this through FitBit and the like. I'm a healthy weight at the lowest end of healthy BMI, with a healthy fat percentage now and am fairly toned. Now if I want to lose more fat I would need to build more muscle which is a whole other game. I don't get overly hungry but I do monitor what I eat (calories and sometimes macros too) and weigh myself because takeaway portions or a meal out could cause me to put weight on just through being sociable really.

Of course, which is why I’ve said calories are part of the story, just not the whole story.

@lazylinguist

The magic diet is one that naturally curbs your appetite. It’s amazing. It requires no calorie counting as you’re rarely hungry and so don’t overeat.

I know - I've done low carb. I lost lots of weight. Just as I did on a low fat diet (which I had no choice about doing, as I had gallstones). Guess what? I fell off both wagons, just as the majority do on any diet, including your magic low carb diet.

Yes, it absolutely does reduce your appetite, and I absolutely believe in its benefits. My DF went low carb, lost a load of weight (though he wasn't very overweight), reversed his sleep apnoea and pre-diabetes and came off his statins. But he has a will of iron! Most people don't manage it. It's still a restrictive and unforgiving diet.

I’m intrigued, why do you think you ‘fell off’ low carb? What was the thing that you couldn’t live without and there was no substitute or straight swap for?

@GalesThisMorning

I ate porridge with maple syrup for breakfast, risotto for lunch and spaghetti bolognese for dinner. Nothing modified about any of it, just smaller portions accompanied by tons of veg. If that's what low carbing looks like then I guess we're both doing it

I can’t stand porridge. I can’t stand risotto and I eat and enjoy a low carb spag bol 👌

Well, we've both found something that works for us by the sounds of things! I guess it just goes to show that there is no one size fits all approach

I lost four stone through calorie counting and have kept it off so you are being ridiculous OP. It does work if you learn what to eat/how much to eat.

I’m just wondering if there’s a low carb version of porridge and risotto 🤔. For most things there’s an
alternative but I’m not sure about rice. I think people use cauliflower. I love the black bean spaghetti from Aldi. It tastes amazing and is crazy low cal/carbs.

I just like normal food!! I'd rather eat a small portion of spaghetti than a large portion of black bean spaghetti. That would make me feel deprived lol

Thing is so much of this stuff tastes no different and has less calories in it. So even if you didn’t want to eat more of it it would mean you could have something else you like or just lose weight quicker. I think so many people just eat high carb versions as they know no different.

Of course it works, I make sure I don't eat too many calories over the course of a week, mixed in with lots of exercise to negate some calories so I can enjoy chocolate etc, and I maintain a healthy size 10.
I've been bigger, when I was eating too many calories....

I didn't rtft but calorie conting does work.

The reasons why people think it doesn't :

• they miscount calories. For instance, get a coffee, think "it's just coffee, doesn't count" and forget that it may contain cream, sugar, etc. A Starbucks coffee is easily 300kcal and more

• they overestimate their TDEE. Think they're more active than they actually are for instance, and burn more calories than they actually do.

• they diet, successfully shed the weight, think they're done and go back to their old habits. Which, of course, means they regain the weight.

Calories are not different. You can lose weight eating only chocolate if you eat less than 1200kcal. Is it healthy ? No. But you will lose weight.

Conversely, you can be fat despite eating a healthy varied diet because your portion sizes are too big.

Both these lifestyles are unhealthy obviously. Ideally people should eat reasonable portion sizes of a varied diet. Calorie counting can be especially useful for people who have overeated their whole lives and have no idea what a reasonable portion size looks like.

Calories are different in the way the body metabolises them. High sugar food is absorbed very quickly, causes a sugar spike and hence you feel hungry more quickly than if you ate the equivalent calorie count in a high fibre food. Plus not all the calories are absorbed in high fibre food so their net worth is less than the calorie count on MFP or whatever you use.
I prefer to eat healthily, no ultra processed or junk food, reduce sugar and do a lot of exercise rather than eating bake, biscuits and other crap just because they fit in the day's calorie count.

I have not quite got to the end yet but I don't think anyone has yet recommended this book so I will do it now:

Why We Eat (Too Much) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0241400538?ref=ppxpoppmobappshare

I'm only part way through but so far it's a fairly convincing argument as to why it is not as simple as calories in minus calories out = calories stored.

The premise is that the body adjusts to reach its own target weight by changing both hunger level and metabolism, in the same way it adjusts to the correct amount of water by changing thirst and urination level.

Jason Fung also explains why the CICO argument is flawed.

I’m intrigued, why do you think you ‘fell off’ low carb? What was the thing that you couldn’t live without and there was no substitute or straight swap for?

Swaps don't taste remotely the same. There are no low carb biscuits, cakes, chocolate etc. Not that I eat those things all the time, but never eating fhem again is a depressing prospect.

Also the inconvenience. Even if I am prepared to give up high carb foods, the rest of my family isn't. They absolutely wouldn't be interested in eatimg black bean spaghetti, cauliflower rice etc.

I did low carb bootcamp, but it was too restrictive to do long-term. I guess I could reduce my carbs pretty easily, but not to that extent. Also the moment I deviated even a bit, the weight went back on astonishingly quickly!

I think all is true, regarding Jason Fung's points etc.

However I do also think there are also a lot of social cues surrounding our eating which can be flawed. My diet was basically good. I had lost weight through a low carb diet before but put weight on having D.C. and then more when they were small. I didn't feel hungry all the time and only ate at mealtimes, I didn't eat entirely low carb but lowish carb my diet was balanced, a few food quality whole grains with plenty of fresh veg and proteins. Good quality carbs do have some important nutrients such a B vitamins and magnesium. I felt it was important to eat this way with my D.C. We ate family meals together.

I was at a loss as to exactly why I was gaining weight with each year. Then the answer came when I got a FitBit. I was simply eating far too much at mealtimes. I am fairly tall but quite slight and everybody in my house had a greater need for calories than me. My D.C. were still growing and my DH s taller and more muscular. We ate the same portions of food. Pub and restaurant portions of food are generally too great for my calories needs. Although I walked everywhere I still wasn't active enough.

So counting calories and increasing exercise do work for me. I had the basis of a good diet anyway. It was social eating at mealtimes, portion sizes that were suited to other people, that set things out of kilter for me.

@lazylinguist

I’m intrigued, why do you think you ‘fell off’ low carb? What was the thing that you couldn’t live without and there was no substitute or straight swap for?

Swaps don't taste remotely the same. There are no low carb biscuits, cakes, chocolate etc. Not that I eat those things all the time, but never eating fhem again is a depressing prospect.

Also the inconvenience. Even if I am prepared to give up high carb foods, the rest of my family isn't. They absolutely wouldn't be interested in eatimg black bean spaghetti, cauliflower rice etc.

I did low carb bootcamp, but it was too restrictive to do long-term. I guess I could reduce my carbs pretty easily, but not to that extent. Also the moment I deviated even a bit, the weight went back on astonishingly quickly!

Ah okay. I get terrible gingivitis if sugar even crosses my lips so it’s incredibly easy for me to have given up those things forever as I really like my teeth 🤭

I find the swaps really easy and tasty. It’s just learning new habits for me. I managed to put on weight doing the fast800 for two weeks!!! It just had too much sugar in it. My body is crazy.

@justanotherneighinparadise, you may have some degree of insulin resistance if you get infections / put weight on when you eat even a small amount of sugar. Before I ever did low carb, then when I did I discovered it was carbs and sugar that used to send my appetite out of control and I used to feel shaky if I didn't eat for an extended period of time. I used to be ravenous coming home from work, for example. However, after low carbing for a long time I find I can eat small amounts of carbs and sugar without them really affecting me badly. I think my body has healed. I can even fast without much problem, it's just boring for me as I like the social side of eating and good food! Good quality carbs do have nutritional value and are useful for exercise that requires quick bursts of energy. I tend to run at a pace that is almost effortless for me and am pretty well fat adapted for that however if I wanted to sprint some carb loading might be beneficial.

@grasstreeleaf I think you’re right. I had chronic fatigue syndrome for a good 10 years until I figured out that sugar was exacerbating it. Cutting sugar out has basically given me my health back in so many ways so low carb/Keto was the obvious way of eating for life, for me. I can maintain my very average weight now with no issue. If I want to get lean though that’s when calories have a part to play. I have to eat less lol.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Well, if you want to get lean, I can vouch for the fact running really helps! There's not much to touch it regarding burning calories in the time it takes to do it and for me it is easier than HiiT ( I always feel like I will injure myself with that). If you run slow you can pretty much do it fasted (which would be low carb).