Why are people still counting calories when it doesn’t work

[Ifyoubelieveyouwill]

Just that really. I don’t understand why people are still counting calories when the science shows it doesn’t work and makes you gain more weight in the long term. As a 20 year yo-yo dieter I’m proof calorie counting leads to obesity over time.

Now the scientific evidence is conclusive that it’s the nutritional quality of food that matters for weight loss. Not the calories in/ calories out equation. I wonder why diets like WW and Noom are still so popular.

Have people just missed the memo? Not being goady, I’m just wondering whether people feel the short term weight loss is worth it.

@justanotherneighinparadise there are lots of competing camps. Personally I find the evidence more compelling for whole foods plant based (for overall health/avoidance of disease not just weight loss) but there are proponents for Mediterranean, intermittent fasting, low carb/keto, paleo, etc etc. National dietary guidelines are the closest thing you get to scientific consensus I think.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar yep that’s exactly what I have been babbling on about Thank you for your summary- you put it very well and I agree with all your points.

I had assumed I was late to the party as the scientific evidence started building up 5 years ago. I guess it has been such a revelation to me and I’m so bloody excited that this is so life changing to me, I was just baffled as to why so many people are still in the calorie counting trap (again, the process... not the consuming fewer calories bit).

I don’t mind being accused of whatever... I’m happy that this is working for me. And if one yo-yo dieter who doesn’t have the willpower to calorie count is reading this and benefits from a different way of approaching weight loss, then I’ll be a happy woman

@justanotherneighinparadise yes that’s me to a tee! I’m glad I read about the insulin and blood glucose science, as I say it’s been a revelation to me. It explains so much

@Cavagirl that would be a very long thread title

@justanotherneighinparadise insulin resistance is basically caused by fat in the bloodstream - either due to being overweight, or due to a diet high in fat nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-what-causes-insulin-resistance-diabetes/
I have PCOS but unlike many or even most women with the condition, I don’t have insulin resistance and am determined not to develop it!

In reading some studies on it, it seems different people will respond differently to fats and carbs, and I've read a few things that fats and carbs together tend to be the highest risk for encouraging overeating (like pizza), but protein has been shown to more consistently satiating and fibre is for most people -- hence why it's possible for a lean steak to be more filling even if it had less fat than a pizza and why it's generally recommended to start with protein, then fiberous veg when meal planning as they're filling and fit different nutritional needs that are easy to fall to the weigh side.

Having a list of appropriate foods is a common dietary technique. I know body builders and lifters who use and promote them both for losing and gaining weight. It isn't that calories calculations or If It Fits Your Macros 'doesn't work', they do just as well as any other diet technique - food lists, eating time windows, food placement (out of sight/reach, out of mind), front loading water (or when gaining, fortified milkshakes), all that - they're all different ways of dressing up particular nutritional choices in ways that some people find works better for them to reach their goals.

Different foods make people feel different, yes, very much so and so does our knowledge and relationship with food -- and for some people, learning the calories in foods is part of that. I know even many who promote these foods lists will say take a set time - sometimes it's a week, sometimes it's up to a few months - to food track both counting calories and how it makes someone feel. That information can then be taken forward even if they stop, but to many it's an important part of the process to learn that X calories of biscuits isn't worth it as it does nothing for them. That's part of why it's still recommended for many, though it's rare seen as something for the long-term.

@PattyPan Yes but the fat in the blood is caused by the conversion of sugar (and carbs) into fat

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill

If calories = weight gain, then chronic alcoholics would be morbidly obese. But they tend not to be.

So not all calories are equal. That’s an oversimplification

This is because they tend not to eat a lot on top of consuming alcohol.

The bottom line is still that if you cut calories to lose weight but then go back to eating more than the amount of calories you need to maintain, you will gain weight again. It's not because of the counting calories at all - as an athlete who tracks all of this for maintaining weight/performance it's very effective for most people that understand that you need to change the amount of calories you eat according to your desired weight. I haven't rtft but I am pretty sure there's not a concensus in nutritional science saying counting calories doesn't work, because it just does. I think what you're referring to is people who struggle with maintenance after they stop a diet. The diet has to be a permanent change for it to work.

As someone with around a stone to lose after lockdown I have recently started calorie counting with varying success although without a doubt it isn’t the calorie counting that fails but me when I don’t stick to it, so I have found this thread interesting. I wonder @Ifyoubelieveyouwill if you would be willing to share your list of foods and a typical weekly meal plan to give an idea of what you eat and when?

Yo-yo dieting fucks with your metabolism, and with your head. I wish I could stop myself from ever starting (back when I looked perfectly fine and should just have done a bit more exercise).

Calorie counting is the only reliable way to lose weight imo.If combining with intermittent fasting even more so.

I’m confused. Calorie counting doesn’t mean yo yo dieting though?

I am currently eating my maintenance calories and eat whatever I want within them. Sometimes I eat healthily, sometimes I don’t. I always eat what I want as long as it’s within my calorie limit. If I want to eat a giant pizza I will. If I want a salad then I’ll have that. Obviously I treat myself for special occasions but most days I count calories. I’m certainly not on any kind of diet but this is how I maintain my weight.

@Wejustdontknow my dinner plan:

@Iggi999 exactly, I feel the same way. I wish I’d never started dieting/ calorie counting. It’s definitely messed up my metabolism.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill Watch the video I linked and it discusses a study where they measured insulin resistance after a high fat or a high carb diet, the high fat one had more resistance so clearly there is more to the process than that. As the video also mentions, studies have also shown saturated fat kills beta cells. Below the video are links to the studies it cites.

Your body can only lose mass by expelling oxygen, carbon and hydrogen locked in fat cells. This can only be done by hormones when your body has a calorie deficit. This is just chemistry and is true for everyone.

Yo-yo dieting is known to mess with production of these hormones. All other talk about diet is to do with nutrition and overall health as well as psychological factors.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill

I think it will be interesting to see how the evidence base evolves over the next few years. All calories are not equal- sugar and non complex carbs cause a different reaction in your body to other foods and makes you gain more weight.

It’s great that calorie counting works for so many of you. But for lots of overweight/ obese people the process of calorie counting does not work and leads to long term weight gain. While they restrict calories, they lose weight. But they fall off the wagon.

It is true that my healthier diet means I could be eating fewer calories. But I have no idea - because I’m not counting calories! The very act of not counting calories and instead being guided by my appetite is why it feels so much easier than all the other diets I’ve been on.

To the poster that said I’ve only been doing this a month, you’re quite right. I don’t have any authority to talk about this. I’m simply mentioning the science which is why I started this approach. It seems so logical and easy to me, I just curious as to why lots of people still count calories- and now you’ve all told me. So now I know!

I do believe we need a change in our obesity strategy. It isn’t working is it?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6557553/

@Wejustdontknow

It’s probably easier to tell you what I don’t eat now.

I don’t eat any ultra processed food but I do eat processed foods (you can look up a definition online). That includes bread. I only eat cake and party food on high days and holidays.

I don’t eat hydrogenated vegetable oil. So that means I eat full fat natural products and extra virgin olive oil or other cold pressed oils.

I don’t eat any sugar- it’s pretty easy to exclude from your diet if you’re excluding UPF

I eat everything else, in any quantity I want.

and appetite.

So OP you're eating a healthy and balanced diet and eating appropriate portions.

After 7 pages I'm not sure what's unique about that. It's great you've found what works for you, but appropriate portions of decent food will probably have fewer calories in than low quality, high fat, high sugar, ultra processed foods.
It seems a bit like you decided that calorie counting was to blame for your yoyo dieting, therefore calorie counting doesn't work.

I've lost 10 pounds calorie counting, so it's worked for me! Mind you, that has been a very slow process over several months. I have never been obese and had only recently just tipped into being every so slightly overweight. Now I'm not. In a few more months at this rate I will be back in my pre kids jeans.

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't see how it could do anything but work? And I agree with whoever said that when you are limiting calories you tend to make every last one count! I am eating tons and tons of vegetables, fish, pulses and lean meat because that gives me the greatest bang for my buck as it were. Massive salad and a bit of salmon as opposed to a cheese sandwich and a packet of crips. How could that not work??

@PattyPan I will do, thanks for sharing the video link- I’m very open minded and keen to learn more

@LolaSmiles Oh no, I didn’t decide calorie counting didn’t work, I read around the science and that’s what it shows.

Again @LolaSmiles I’m talking about the process of calorie counting rather than eating fewer calories.

But clearly it does work for lots of people on this thread!

I think it’s been quite interesting reading everyone’s responses. Not a waste of 7 pages at all. I like hearing about people’s lived experience.

Hopefully my lived experience may help someone else feel they’re not alone. Or challenge someone else to rethink what they have assumed ie. It’s easy to lose weight- just eat less food! It’s not that easy for a lot of people unfortunately and I believe we need to find a different way for those people that don’t succeed with calorie counting.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill it’s a really interesting website if you’re interested in the science of weight loss, because all of the videos link to tons of studies. Easy to wastespend hours working through it all haha