Why We Eat (Too Much) Thread 2

[TooExtraImmatureCheddar]

Shiny new thread to continue on with! I hope everyone keeps going.

For any newbies, this thread is based on a book by Dr Andrew Jenkinson. The main principles are to cut out sugar, wheat and ultra-processed foods, while eating fresh natural ingredients. It works!

Previous thread: thread 1

I bravely started a thread about calorie counting effectiveness for losing weight and as expected, got battered

I don’t care, it’s been a real eye opener hearing the points of view and lack of awareness of more recent science.

I’m in awe of all the people who have the self discipline to count calories their whole lives!

Even if only one overweight/ obese person struggling with the weight loss status quo benefits from learning about a different way... it will be worth it.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill I’ve been dipping in and out of your thread all day, it’s been interesting reading (you babbling op you😂)I think of the ones that dismissed you completely, few were addicted to upf and sugar in the first place, the I still have the odd chocolate bar brigade, I’m sure have never downed 2 packets of biscuits in one sitting and then gone back for more. Also if you lose and then it creeps back on, you’re still convinced it works as it’s only your greed and lack of self control causing it, so you’re too embarrassed to admit it.

To be fair to them it’s impossible to really quote all the science in the book within the confines of a thread. But I still bet the majority of posters were within a healthy weight range anyway, when calorie counting isn’t going to cause a massive spike in the hormones and they still have fully functioning I’m full hormones for times like Christmas.

@YoungBritishPissArtist I don’t think raisins are ok according to posters on here, but I’m not exactly sure why. I am avoiding fruit juice because it doesn’t have the fibre and has a lot of sugar. But not sure what the rationale is for dried fruit. I remember a similar guideline at SW for dried/cooked versus fresh fruit

@Billybagpuss it’s been fascinating to me reading all the responses. How people can be so self controlled astounds me. I think in 5-10 years time the healthy eating guidelines will change because the current advice clearly doesn’t work. Some countries are already telling citizens to avoid UPFs- not just limit their consumption. Sugar is the new smoking imo.

I also think a lot of posters are not representative of the majority of people struggling with obesity in this country. I would count myself MC now but grew up WC and was fed on UPF. So I can see both ‘food cultures’ if you like.

As a family growing up we thought UPF were aspirational (M&S chicken kievs!) and we never went for walks or did sport. Whereas my MC DH says they did the opposite- fresh food and the National Trust/ Sports Sunday’s.

I know it’s not all about class. But the brigade who say it’s all the fat persons fault for being overweight, might not be stopping to think about how privileged their upbringing was in regards to diet/exercise. If everyone around you is overweight, it becomes the norm. If you watch people restrict food/ calorie count the that becomes the norm.

This is just an example. Higher income families might just as well feed posh ready meals because they’re always working.

I looked back at the book and Dr J says in one place that children in healthy Victorian pre-sugar days ate lots of dried fruit (and the inference is that this was fine), but in the section on foods to eat he says no raisins or dried fruit because they give a sugar hit. So I think that they are not inherently bad, but that if you're doing this to lose weight then you should avoid them. Basically, in those days children had very few sweets, so raisins were fine. Nowadays, we have loads. I suspect that raisins are still a better choice than Haribo, though!

I really don't think all those folk are that self-controlled - there are loads saying that they calorie count for a bit, then stop, then start again when they put on some weight. The trouble is that they are seeing the short-term goal (lose weight) rather than the long term one of maintain weight! So they say yes of course it works, but they aren't looking at the big picture. Do you think this WOE works because of the reduction in calories? I thought Dr J is suggesting that calories don't matter at all and the body is responding to better nutrition. Or is it more that we're naturally reducing calories without thinking about it because we aren't as hungry?

I think raisins are prob ok, as it’s dried fruit it’s natural sugars but you are likely to eat more, so a small number for a snack is fine, for me it’s more the I can stop eating dried fruit it’s more addictive.

I think the other thing with the I can control my calories brigade is they restrict calories in the short term but are prossibly not suffering from the more extreme weight gain so the ebb and flow is unlikely to be big numbers.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill prior to this I was being very lazy and we were having a lot of ready meals, mainly M&S delicious but the weight was piling on,

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar I’m not sure and that’s an interesting question about calories. I think the body just kind of settles on what it needs. There’s no need for you to regulate as your body does it for you through appetite/ satiety hormones etc. It’s when you eat sugar and UPF that it gets all messed up and you can’t self regulate your weight as easily.

I’m just pleased not to have to log all the calories/ points / syns or whatever. As it was just causing me to invariably feel bad/ eat crap sometimes at expense of healthy food and I craved food all the time. I haven’t touched any cakes/ crisps etc on this woe because I haven’t thought about them once. I don’t miss them at all. Of course I’m going to give into temptation soon enough but with boundaries (parties/ special days out). But on WW / SW I was planning every day how I could squeeze these foods into my daily allowance. I knew all the points of each chocolate bar. This is just how my brain works - but looking at the threads on here, lots of other people too.

I’ve been thinking this week about other effects of giving up sugar, I’ve been quite strict over it, I started 6 March:

Skin infinitely better, and I’ve always been lucky with good skin anyway.
Hair better
Itchy menopause scalp not as bad
Menopause hot flushes gone haven’t had one for weeks
Weight loss 1.5st

TMI for the next bit
Verrucas that I’ve had for years, treated with bazucca several times never budged, disappeared. (This one makes no sense to me I’m not convinced it’s related, unless the bloody things thrive on high blood sugar)
Stress incontinence that I’ve had since childbirth 22 years ago, now much less of an issue, the bladder just seems to control it better
Better and more regular bowel movements

I’m not massively reduced in size but it is a bit noticeable and I’m now top end of size 16 instead of kidding myself I’m an 18.

I'm going to (very slightly) defend the calorie counters as I used to be in the camp of 'a calorie is a calorie'. Because I have successfully lost weight in the past by counting calories I genuinely thought that people who didn't lose weight just didn't count their calories properly or long enough.

I know that I put all that weight back on, but it was when I stopped counting calories and being strict with my diet, so that reinforced the idea that calorie counting works.

It does, but only over the short-term. It does not work long-term.

I've now realised this, but only recently and it has taken quite a lot of reading and education to understand why it is not as simple as that.

I also have recently had my mind blown that a food will provide different calories depending on how it is served - a raw stick of celery will be around 6 calories, but when it is cooked it will be around 30 calories!! So even when I was counting calories I was doing it all wrong anyway!

@Tiredandbored agree with all of that, that’s basically the thought process I’m going through

I just want to say goodbye and thank you for this thread. I wouldn’t have heard about this book if it wasn’t for you guys, and this book is truly changing my life. I’m going to have to leave because the other thread took a turn and has upset me. I didn’t expect that to happen, but the insinuation that obese people are to blame and the mentality of lack of self control = weakness has really upset me.

But on a positive note, I’m motivated to go for a walk, rather than eat an unhealthy snack which is what I would have previously done if upset! So I’ve made a lot of progress.

Thank you all so much, especially the original poster x

I'm sorry to hear this @Ifyoubelieveyouwill, I haven't read your other thread but I know from previous threads it can get brutal.

Please consider a name change and coming back into this thread as we appreciate your input and meal suggestions as well as encouragement. But whatever you decide is best for you we will support.

@Billybagpuss

I’ve been thinking this week about other effects of giving up sugar, I’ve been quite strict over it, I started 6 March:

Skin infinitely better, and I’ve always been lucky with good skin anyway.
Hair better
Itchy menopause scalp not as bad
Menopause hot flushes gone haven’t had one for weeks
Weight loss 1.5st

TMI for the next bit
Verrucas that I’ve had for years, treated with bazucca several times never budged, disappeared. (This one makes no sense to me I’m not convinced it’s related, unless the bloody things thrive on high blood sugar)
Stress incontinence that I’ve had since childbirth 22 years ago, now much less of an issue, the bladder just seems to control it better
Better and more regular bowel movements

I’m not massively reduced in size but it is a bit noticeable and I’m now top end of size 16 instead of kidding myself I’m an 18.

This is amazing! Aside from the weight loss, I'll be very chuffed if this WOE has the same impact for me.

@Tiredandbored

I'm sorry to hear this *@Ifyoubelieveyouwill*, I haven't read your other thread but I know from previous threads it can get brutal.

Please consider a name change and coming back into this thread as we appreciate your input and meal suggestions as well as encouragement. But whatever you decide is best for you we will support.

This! Please don't leave this thread. Try a name change instead.

@Ifyoubelieveyouwill agree. Don’t leave. Some threads are so harsh. This is more of a life change, not a diet. It’s a positive future.

I’ve had a couple of weeks off the rails. Couldn’t understand why I felt so hungover, despite not drinking. It’s probably the pizza!! Wheat!! Also milk!! I came off oat milk as was away from home. I’ve had oat milk for 6 months and my heads felt clearer. Going back onto dairy made me feel hungover and sluggish.
Home now and feeling empowered. Although have had a huge chunk of dairy milk tonight!!
Otherwise eaten fruit, oat cakes, cheese and stir fry greens today.

Morning everyone, what's on the menu plans today?

B - porridge
L - pan-fried cod with sweet potato mash
D - beef stew with new potatoes

Funnily enough I saw your post @Ifyoubelieveyouwill and thought ‘this person needs to get on our thread’ but didn’t read any further or indeed your name.

Definitely don’t leave. Some people on here are extremely opinionated and aren’t open to other options.

I had fried potatoes and eggs this morning, a JP with cheese, chorizo and loads of veg. Not sure about dinner as my beef didn’t defrost quickly enough to make my rendang, so I’ll do that tomorrow. Any suggestions gratefully received. The problem is I don’t really have an thing except more potatoes 😂 and no meat defrosted! I might have to throw together a tuna pasta (if I have any pasta)

I don’t think I ate enough yesterday so have had extra cheese and biscuits this afternoon ,it’s the tic biscuits they don’t have sugar in so tick my current requirements just. I did feel better after it.

Took DH out for a buffet breakfast this morning (his favourite thing), so a bit off plan but not terribly. I swerved the toast, fried bread and hash brown and just had sausage, bacon, eggs, beans and tomatoes. Wheat in the sausages and I expect it's all cooked in bad oils...

Dinner was beef Rendang (first time making it), lovely but very salty. Probably the soy sauce and I must have added too much salt to the beef with the pepper, so I won't do that next time. Brown rice with it.
Strawberries and cream for pudding.

That thread is still going and you are getting some back up, @Ifyoubelieveyouwill Hope you do stick around.

Wow, I Jhansi bread last night, not great quality bread either, the pre baked rolls. Both DH and I felt dreadful.

I’ve always said life is too short for cheap sausages so we have them very rarely but get quality butcher ones when we do, looks like I’ve got to add bread to that list. I’ve also promised to make a focaccia for friends at the weekend.

How the hell has it autocorrected I had bread to Jhansi!

@Billybagpuss

Wow, I Jhansi bread last night, not great quality bread either, the pre baked rolls. Both DH and I felt dreadful.

I’ve always said life is too short for cheap sausages so we have them very rarely but get quality butcher ones when we do, looks like I’ve got to add bread to that list. I’ve also promised to make a focaccia for friends at the weekend.

Isn't it interesting the impact UPFs have on your body after not eating them for a while! Makes me realise even more how bad they are for us. Worrying that you can get so used to eating them they no longer affect you that way.

My weight loss has continued after a bit of a plateau - weighed this morning and I've now lost 1 stone 8 lbs. I've started noticing some NSVs as well - I usually wear quite loose-fitting clothes, but recently I haven't been as self-conscious if I'm wearing something slightly more fitted.

Genuinely am delighted that I'm losing weight when still eating as much as I am. Have not been hungry on this WoE, am not constantly thinking about food, no counting or weighing, happy to have a treat occasionally and don't feel guilty about it, am eating filling and healthy meals and am not hungry in between times. What a difference from previous diets I've been on!!

It’s weird isn’t it, the not constantly thinking ‘what’s in the kitchen’?

going back to @Ifyoubelieveyouwill other thread, if I were calorie counting, I would be spending my afternoons thinking, I’m hungry (when actually I may have just wanted to eat there is a difference) what can I have, how many calories is it, does it fit? I could just have an apple, well actually that’s almost the same as a kitkat, let’s have that instead, well actually they’re not very much, I’ll have 2.

And this is why, for me it absolutely didn’t work, because sure I had the will power for a few days, but not ad infinitum.

Also I’ve had an open packet of mini marshmallows in the kitchen since March.