Paul McKenna "I can make you thin" support thread

[Breathmiller]

I found out about this book and audio this week from another thread and poster (thanks @ppeatfruit) and am finding it useful.

I found an old support thread from years ago but I dont think its still active.

Does anyone who is interested in this want to chat and support?
Or anyone who has used it in the past with good results want to give hints and tips?

I have tried every diet going and have had real issues with yoyo dieting but my big aim this year has been to make food not such a battle.

I feel this might just be the way forward for me. But I'm aware I'm in very early days.

@misskatamari thanks, I’m ready for another week at work. Went for a couple of walks this weekend, tried birdwatching but nothing turned up! I tidied my study (bedroom now converted to my office) and that was surprisingly cathartic. My imagination took me out for a long brisk walk today so just need the sun to come out and that might be my lunch break.
Here’s to a good week all.

Aww man. Just typed out a long post and it didn't post.

Anyway...HELLO everyone. Great to see this thread building up and I am loving all the support given.

I can't go back a page on my phone to tag the pp but the alcohol conversation is a good one. For me, they go hand in hand. In a week or so I will be 6 months dry. And it's what charged me to take control of this part of my life too.

There are so many parallels to how i approach food and body image to drinking for me. I am on a thread here for support at not drinking ever again. No moderation.

It's no coincidence that the last time I did 18 months AF, not only was I at my slimmest as an adult but I achieved a huge project that made a massive difference to my life.

When i moderated drinking, i would be good for a while then fall back into bad habits. And that's all they were. Habits. So this way of thinking really helps me to address food in the same way.

I don't need to drink or eat my emotions. It's getting to the crux of the problem. Not sticking a plaster over the wound that I would either pick at or rip off again and again.

I'm not quite as far along as I am with drinking, not quite as at ease with food and weight as I am about being free from alcohol but I am getting there. I feel this has changed my attitude completely and its just a case of keeping going. Even on the days when I get it wrong. Just get up and listen to the audio again the next day and get on with where I am.

I do make a few mistakes but I see them as learning curves as opposed to full on beating myself up.

I can't quite get out of the Friday night is treat night but I definitely don't take it to the extreme I used to. Probably because I know its not a one off. I CAN eat all these foods again the next day if I wanted.

But Saturday I over ate. We ordered a curry and I had a good amount leaving enough room for the dessert we had. All good, I even left half the dessert as I was full. But for some reason I went back for more curry after. No reason, not emotionally eating, purely because it was there and it was tasty. But that tipped me into uncomfortably full. And it didn't feel good. I didn't like the feeling. Whereas before I think in some ways I got a sense of enjoyment in that feeling as it confirmed to me that I was a "greedy pig". (I no longer use these words about myself but I did for many years).

But, and this takes me back to the parallels to drinking, if I feel so good NOT drinking and NOT over eating then why on earth would I "treat" myself to feeling crap? The treat was the takeaway, not having to cook and a delicious meal that I enjoy. There's no pleasure in eating so much I feel over full. That's not a treat. And neither is "treating" myself to a hangover.

Although I started last August with giving up booze, it has had long reaching consequences. I feel I have space to address the food issue and I have taken control of my house too with a cleaning app. I am on top of work and feeling less out of control.

It's a beautiful blue sky crisp day here so I will treat myself to a walk later. Oh, and a dance!

Every day in January I did yoga (with a sun salutation) , I walked or ran at least 15 minutes, moved up to 20 then 30 a day. And since I heard about the dance boost I have put a song on and danced every day!! Now thats a treat!!!

Happy Monday everyone.

I'm on the same alcohol thread as you @Breathmiller, and I also have the same dilemma. If I can be in control of everything else in my life, why is food so problematic for me?

I do believe it's linked to mental attitude. With alcohol, it was easy for me to flip the switch. I need to do a lot more work on eating rubbish, using food as an emotional crutch and disassociating the feeling of being hungry with being empty. I never went hungry as a child, but felt deprived in other ways. But I'm working on it and I'm hopeful.

And congratulations on the six months, that's awesome!

Waves to Ahotel

Yes, food definitely has more complications as we can't just stop altogether as we can with alcohol.

So, I couldn't get my head around the real parallel to fix this in my brain. Then, last week I had the revelation that I wasn't stopping eating, that's impossible but I'm stopping emotionally eating. A different thing altogether.

I can flip that switch. And that's when I felt a lightbulb go off in my head. I don't need to drink to cover my emotions. And I don't need to eat to cover my emotions.

That's what I needed to separate.

Eating for fuel (and enjoyment of that fuel) - necessary
Emotionally eating/drinking - unnecessary.

I can do many other things to help me emotionally. And then food can be for hunger, fuel and yes enjoyment.

I was also worried it would take the enjoyment out of food. But it's the opposite. I enjoy it so much more now it isn't a battleground.

And the thing I often choose to do that is emotionally nurturing just happens to be things that also help with weight loss and a healthy body. Like the walking outside in the beautiful day today. Good for my mental health and my physical health. Or dancing on my own or with my family. Or learning to run. Or more active yoga. Win win.

I also have more relaxing nurturing practices on hand too.
Doing an online jigsaw, meditation, a bath, watching a programme cuddled up on the sofa with dh, reading a book, listening to a podcast.

So many options in my tool box rather than eating. Or drinking.

I just think this is very pertinent at this time of stress to focus on dealing with emotional eating- it has been clear to me I have been finding it harder due to lockdown and also boredom and having less of other coping strategies available around as well.

I have put on over a stone and also had some meds which didn't help (can cause weight gain) so been advised to take care with eating on them as well.

With the drinking I'm going to be mindful of that too and not drink in the week, limit of couple of glasses wine at the weekends. That kind of worked this weekend.

A couple of small things have helped me this couple of days- I have a sweet tooth and I have got some sugar free sweets (Sula - bit like Werther's) and suck one of those if I have an afternoon sweet craving instead of having a biscuit'/s) Also I like those little Choc pots from Coconut collaborative for in the evening. The two times in the day I get cravings. Then I can generally manage the rest of the day OK.

Best wishes to all trying this

Also, as Breathmiller said there are foods which can be both fuel and nourishing emotionally such as soup for example. Or I made a mushroom curry at the weekend - the warmth and taste on the cold days and knowing you can eat as much of it as you need.

So that's something else I'm thinking of, making the healthy stuff tasty and nourishing, no 'diet foods' or the like, to help things along.

Oh yes! Soup! Or "goodness in a bowl" as it's called in our house. So comforting and warm and delicious.

Another thing I like is Skyr, a strawberry one. Like a creamy pudding type thing but high in protein and low in fat. Nice with fruit.

These last few comments have been really helpful in organising my thoughts, so thank you.

I am finding it hard to make sense of it all in my head. Much more difficult when food has such an emotional pull.

What I have realized this week is that the main reason I eat is because I like the taste. I'm not really an emotional eater except for boredom.

I have had a lightbulb moment though. If for example it took me 10 minutes to shovel in a large plate of food, I had the pleasure of the taste for 10 minutes. Suppose it was so nice I went back for seconds, so another 5 minutes. Yummy yummy flavour for 15 minutes (and eleventy billion calories).

Now I am eating really slowly. The food tastes even better than before and say it takes 20 minutes to slowly slowly chew chew, I have now had the pleasure of the flavour 20 minutes instead of 15 (And a tiny fraction of the calories)

For me it really is that simple.

Eating for boredom I can deal with when I try, but in fact even that has been so much easier this time.

I hope this logic is useful to somebody.

Welcome to all the newcomers! It's great to have more people on board. I find it so motivational to have you all to chat to.

I've said it before, but the biggest change for me has definitely been in terms of emotional eating - absolutely life changing. And @Canyoureallymakemethin, that is so true about the enjoyment as well. Sometimes i just want to eat something because it is yummy. Before, i would just eat it all, feel overly full, beat myself up about being a greedy failure. Now i'm like "dya know what, I'm not ravenously hungry, but i'm not stuffed after my main meal like usual, and I want a bit of pudding", and i will have a little bit. I really enjoy it, and then i stop when i've had enough. It's early days, but so far seems to be working, and this feels like a managable way to live my life. I just cannot "diet". This way feels so much more freeing.

Oooh speaking of yoghurt too, a few weeks ago we had lemon cake for DD's birthday, so have some lemon curd in the fridge. We were having blueberries and greek yoghurt for pudding last week, and i thought, oooh i wonder what a blob of lemon curd would be like in it? OMG - it is amazing! Not much at all, so not too "bad" for you, but it just tasted absolutely gorgeous! Definitely an additon we will do in future as well :D

Something I do need help with, not sure if anyone can though.

I have trouble with the hunger cues, but in the wrong way. I think it's to many years of food restriction or fasting.

I can tell hunger signs by the hollow feeling and rumbling. But with ICMYT im not supposed to wait that long. And then again, i can't tell when i am pleasantly full, just not very hungry anymore.

I'm a bit worried I'm not eating enough. Plus I still believe snacking is terrible for your blood sugar, but I am waiting til I feel the hunger, then eating til I don't feel it. But then a couple of hours later I am needing a snack because the hunger is back.

How can i work out the cues?

I have what I think is probably very hungry, not very hungry, or stuffed. I'm missing everything in between.

Any ideas? I don't want to not enough enough and stuff up what little metabolism I do have left. I would like to be eating 2 or 3 meals a day and eating enough at those meals to last to the next.

I have only ever snacked through gluttony before, never because of hunger.

Even doing OMAD I didn't really get hungry later in the day, and after a Sunday roast lunch I would never be able to eat dinner in the evening.

Or do I just have to roll with it and hope I don't develop diabetes. TBF I think I'm lucky to have escaped it so far considering.

I think that snacks would only be bad for blood sugar if they spiked it (so cakes or choc or something) if you ate healthy snacks it would be OK. Protein is meant to be good for a filling snack or something like apple and small piece of cheese for example.

www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/lockdown_health_tips

Just linked to this because it seemed like what people are doing here in a way -useful stuff

@Canyoureallymakemethin, if you think you're eating to "not hungry anymore" instead of comfortable full, could you eat to that point, and then eat a few more bites for example, and really focus on how you are feeling with that, and how it affects your hunger? Maybe set a time to "check in" every hour/half hour or so after, and just take a minute to breath deeply and really focus on how hungry you feel, so you can notice how it changes subtley. Snack wise, i have found i am snacking more on this, as like you i think i am eating less at meals and sometmes that isn't enough to tide me over until the next one. I think making sure to plan healthy things which you can eat and fuel you well can be useful here. So some apple slices with some nut butter, houmous and some veg/a couple of crackers etc. So something that has protein and fibre ideally, which will fill you up and fuel you, without spiking your bloodsugar.

I think with all of this, we have to remember it is okay that it is a slow process, and we're not sure at first. We have all spent years and years developing our current habits. We can't magically undo these overnight, it's all a learning process and we are heading in the right direction. It might be slow going, but it should hopefully help us to create healthy habits, which stick for the rest of our lives.

Actually that's a really good idea about eating a couple more bites. I will try it.

I don't really eat much junk or suffer generally. I mean don't get me wrong I can easily polish off a sharer bag of sweets in no time, but it's not my day to day problem. I've always said I eat a really healthy diet 90% of the time just way to much of it 😂

Morning everyone

misskatamari lemon curd in yoghurt sounds amazing. Did you make the lemon curd? I might buy some and add it into my morning yoghurt.

I'm enjoying (vg) greek yoghurt and a fig, a couple of dates and some nuts and seeds for breakfast at the moment. I bought little pots from tesco and it's enough. Instead of a huge bowl.

canyoureallymakemethin
The hunger cues is something I found really hard but I think I am getting better. He says a couple of things that made sense to me to help me.

1. It's like a muscle - the more you use it the stronger it will become. &
2. The aeroplane analogy about always resetting your course.

I was definitely not able to notice hunger cues when they are more subtle, I had to wait til my stomach was rumbling.

And the other end of the scale, I didn't 'hear' my full sign until I passed comfortably full. It was like I could just sense the extremes, too many years not listening I suppose.

But it's like fine tuning your awareness. The more I slow down while eating, and the more I listen in I can definitely sense the more subtle cues now.

I'm not sure I can explain the hunger one so much but the full one has a few cues for me.

One, like someone said back thread a bit, is like a sigh, except mine is delightfully like a little burp. There is the thing about the mouthful not being so enjoyable. "Am I having another mouthful because I'm still hungry or because I want to finish my plate?"

The way I pushed past that was to give myself permission that if I stop now and I'm still hungry in half an hour then I can always eat again. I do also have just another couple of bites just to check. I wonder if that won't be necessary as I get better at it.

I spent a few weeks almost having 4 equal small meals but at the moment seemed to have settled to breakfast, lunch and dinner with a small healthy snack supper if I'm hungry. Last night I had an apple dipped in houmous for supper.

So it is a learning curve I suppose. I'm exploring it all. And each time I seem to get to know my cues a little bit more.

Like, right now i can feel that I am hungry. I haven't had breakfast because I wasn't hungry before now. So I will go have a small pot of yoghurt and some fruit and nuts. And then if I'm hungry in an hour or two then I can have my lunch. Sometimes I would have soup and a sandwich for lunch. But, I've just been having one or the other because I know that if I just have soup, if I'm hungry in an hour I can have the sandwich part. I've not eaten more than a soup and a sandwich, I've just not eaten it all at once.

We've been having little cups of soup when we come in from the snow. Not ravenous for dinner but just a little filling healthy stopgap. If it 'spoils ' my dinner then it's no big deal, i can wait til later to have dinner or eat less of it. What I've not done is ignore that hunger cue and then fought through to dinnertime probably ransacking the unhealthy snacks.

Perhaps instead of thinking of 'meal' food and 'snack food' just think of spacing the food you would have in meals out over the day more?

So, last week we had pudding after dinner, but I was full so I left mine. But, a few hours later I was a little hungry so I enjoyed my pudding then. It was like I didn't need to eat a portion of dinner and then pudding, I could space it out.

Good luck with it, you will find your own way. Just keep at it.

@Breathmiller alas the lemon curd was shop bought. I make jam quite a lot, but I haven't braved a curd yet.

Good call on the yoghurt and nuts etc for breakfast. I keep meaning to make granola again, I found a lovely recipe and dd loves it too, but I keep not getting round to it. It's so filling and lovely with Greek yoghurt.

I meant to mention "the sigh" yesterday - I've definitely been noticing that as well, so thanks whoever it was the mentioned it earlier on!

alas the lemon curd was shop bought. I make jam quite a lot, but I haven't braved a curd yet

Haha. Sorry, that maybe came across as a judgement - disclaimer I have NEVER made lemon curd in my life!
I just read somewhere last year about home made lemon curd and it's been on my wishlist for a while. In truth its very unlikely to ever happen.

@Breathmiller 😂 apparently it's very easy to make, I just haven't ever dared. Maybe one to try this year. It's not something I usually have in, but is a lovely treat now we have some.

Oooh I've been meaning to ask as well. You've mentioned online jigsaws a few times. I've never heard of them before, and was wondering if you had any recommendations? I love real jigsaws but often cba getting one out if we'll have to put it away again soon (we thankfully do have a saving mat thing but it's not great)

misskatamari it's just an app I got a few years ago. Free if I remember rightly. It has a daily free jigsaw and a few free ones to begin with. You can buy other packs with real money or build up points and buy packs that way.

It's called Jigsaw Puzzle. The logo is an orange square with a green jigsaw piece in the middle.

Thanks guys
Yes I suppose I just need to try and tune in to the more subtle cues I suppose. I will try and see if I eat a bit more whether I will get a sigh / burp / something else.

I'm just fearful of breaking the spell and opening the floodgates. I am enjoying my food when I have it now, but completely disinterested unless I am hungry .

It's odd because I'm not afraid of hunger at all, and it doesn't drive me to wolf down the snacks or a bigger meal. I'm just fat through sheer gluttony . I was always fed a healthy diet as a kid but huge portions, and we had to finish our plates before we could get down from the table. I suppose that's where it comes from.

Pre ICMYT I could easily go all day without even really thinking about food, but then eat a huge dinner and cheese n biscuit desert without thinking twice . Or just as easily eat breakfast, lunch, snacks and still eat the same huge dinner.

I think I probably am eating enough, it just doesn't seem like it compared to before. I think I will start logging for a few days just to make sure

Thanks @Breathmiller I've downloaded and will have a go.

I'm really trying to carve out more time for myself and self care at the moment. Yesterday, the kids finished school work by lunch, and instead of doing endless chores and jobs, I decided to start the dungarees I'd cut the pattern for before Christmas! I've made some good progress and it was just lovely to have that time to be creative.

@Canyoureallymakemethin I think it's probably natural to feel a bit unsure if it is working to start with. "Eat when you're hungry, stop when pleasantly full" is quite an alien concept to so many of us, I think it's natural to question it and second guess ourselves. Hopefully with time you'll feel more confident noticing hunger before you end up ravenous, and feel more sure of your fullness.

I am sooooo unmotivated today. (In truth I was yesterday evening too).
I am so over....home schooling, working on zoom from my attic, housework, exercise (in my attic because it won't stop bloody snowing), oh yeah- the snow, healthy eating, lockdown......on and on and on.

I definitely have the groundhog day blues today. I can feel old thoughts of eating these emotions surfacing and opened a second flapjack for breakfast even though deep down I knew I was full. But hey ho.. I only ate a couple of bites before I realised.

But.. nevertheless, I need to be wary today.

Today's word is....bleurgh!

@Breathmiller I think the weather is against us today, it is quite depressing. Did you know it was actually Groundhog Day in the USA yesterday? It takes time to get over the Atlantic. I am feeling better this week, more hopeful. I can see the snowdrops starting to push through in the border next to the path.