Does becoming overweight set up permanent weight problems for life?

[Mudmagnetoftheworld]

Do people who’ve managed to lose a decent amount of weight, say more than a couple of stone, ever manage to maintain a healthy weight effortlessly?

Is it just a matter of changing lifestyle and attitudes to eating and exercise? Or once you’ve been overweight do you always struggle to keep it off?

After being skinny all through my childhood, teens 20’s & 30’s, I’m now pushing 50 and managed to get myself 2-3 stone overweight!

Is that it for me now? If I manage to lose it, do I need to accept I’ll have to exist on hardy any food?

@OliviaD68 my friend sent me this link. Are you familliar with it?

paleoforwomen.com/shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/

@antimatter

Not familiar but I’m going to dig into this. I suppose it’s not surprising that men and women would react differently. But still it’s a surprise to see it could be v negative for women - doesn’t make sense in evolutionary terms. Both women and men would have been subjected to long fasting periods in hunter gatherer days, so why would the body get healthier in men and less so in women?

The post does say there have been no studies on women - forget rat studies. You can’t conclude anything from a rat other than: let’s do more research (on women).

I have not experienced any of this myself. My reasons for doing IF are mainly so I can get the benefit of growth hormone production and testosterone which even women need.

If I find anything I’ll let you know.

@antimatter

One thing comes to mind.

The IF which was tested appears - in all 3 studies on women - to have been done in the context of an average diet - ie one which is higher on carbs where blood insulin would be high, thus blocking fat metabolism.

My thought on this: if you don’t have access to body fat because it takes days to get into ketosis (alternate day fasting is mentioned), the body may react differently. You would then starve the body of energy - which is not the case when you’re in ketosis because you access body fat.

So it’s possible that reproductive functions would shut down in one instance (for example to conserve energy and dedicate it to hunting food vs procreating) and not in another. But who knows until and unless a study has been done? It’s conjecture and hypothesis.

Personally, I think I mentioned I would never do IF if I were not in a fat burning mode - ketosis - because I don’t like feeling hungry. Friends of mine do IF and are fine (but they are more on the LCHF end of the food macro spectrum).

So I guess in the absence of conclusive evidence I would test it out and see if it works for you. But be wary of throwing the baby out with the bath water: diet composition may matter. So if you’re high carb it may not work for you but could very well work when you’re low carb.

My two cents (not worth much more in the absence of evidence) ...

I must admit that although IF brought my weight down nicely (I had about eight pounds to shift) it did seem to increase my LDL, even when I had finished IF. Although high LDL is not regarded as a problem on MN, most GPs are not very happy when you are my age, 53, and will start talking statins at some point. I really don’t want to take statins.

If after Christmas I feel unhappy with my weight I might do the odd IF.

@Abra1d

Statins? Because LDL has gone up? As you may know LDL is NOT cholesterol but a protein which DELIVERS cholesterol.

And cholesterol is necessary for life. It helps rebuild cells. 30% of the brain is cholesterol and your body produces some 80% of what it needs with the rest coming from food.

If I were you I would at least research this before taking statins. My view is poor cholesterol markers - assuming they are even poor - are a symptom not a cause of a problem. And doctors generally prescribe statins because they treat symptoms not causes.

Who says your LDL is bad anyway? Have you looked into whether your LDL is large (good) or small (bad)? And other ratios / levels? Like Trig to HDL. HDL levels and Trig levels. Total Cholesterol?

There’s a ton of research on Cholesterol on the internet - YouTube vids from researchers and studies done.

Need some help?

I do a full panel lipids blood test two or three times a year. I have read a lot about different kinds of LDL. 🙂

I am not on statins.

But if you are a patient at an NHS practice they will still probably not be happy with high LDL. They will want to follow what is still official guidance. That’s just the reality.

It’s not possible to get a cholesterol test on the NHS that measures particle size. Even getting on that shows HDL/LDL ratio is hard in our area. That’s why I pay for mine. But particle size is not measured.

Are you in the States? I know tests are different there.

@Abra1d

This does not surprise me. Doesn’t make it the right course of action.

Sounds like you know what you are doing. Good luck.

I have read a lot and tried various lifestyle changes. Thanks for the good wishes!

@Abra1d

No I’m in the UK ... I’ve just read a ton on this stuff.

And it’s convinced me:

1. Cholesterol markers are a symptom not a cause
2. LDL not all it’s cracked up to be. LDL A are good / LDL B are bad
3. Trig to HDL > 3x is not good
4. LCHF generally raises HDL, drops Trig and keeps LDL constant (but improves LDL A to B ratio)
5. Statins are shit

Conclusion ==> Don’t focus on cholesterol unless genetically a problem.

I've found this thread utterly fascinating. Currently I'm on a vlcd as I've absolutely loads of weight to shift and I've an operation in a few weeks time but already I'm researching on the best way to continue weight loss once I reintroduce solid food.

I'm rather a complex case as I've recently been diagnosed with binge eating disorder and found meal replacements to be an absolute game changer because I no longer have to make any food decisions.

I know this can't last forever and I'm having therapy but I do think LCHF will be the way to go. IF is an interesting option too. Lots to think about!

@ChickenFriedMice

I suggest you try things out and see what works best for you. Armed with some knowledge you should be able to do that and know why things happen or don’t.

Good luck.

@stevie69
You look like a completely different person! That’s amazing, well done!

@OliviaD68
How are you getting on with the blood testing?
Your comments got me thinking and I ordered some testing strips the last 2 days I’ve tested I’m not in ketosis.
Not sure why, as I’ve been careful with the carbs and I’m not hungry at all. Is there any reason you can think of?

On a positive the weight is heading down again and I’ve had to buy some smaller clothes as my trousers were looking ridiculous.

@HorridHoris

How many g per day of net carbs and proteins are you eating?

Also It takes a few days to hit ketosis. But need to be v strict.

Note that ketone strips don’t always work! Strange you’re not hungry. Let me think about it.

The blood ketone meter I want is in the US so waiting until I go in a month.

@HorridHoris

I’ve give this some more thought.

First I should just say your objective is not necessarily to be in ketosis. Your objective is fat loss. I do understand being in ketosis will accelerate weight loss though. But it’s not strictly necessary.

Carb intake is the number one factor. Can’t think of anything else. Try less than 20g per day and see what happens.

Too much protein converts to glucose as you know. If you’re eating more than 50g of protein per day that could be it too.

What kind of fats are you eating? Focus should be on saturated and monounsaturated. Are you eating enough fat ? Do you have an idea of calorie percentage from fat vs carbs?

Also. Try your strips at different times of the day.

I think it’s been about right from the percentages you talked about I’ll check exact figures at let you know.

The fats I’ve been eating have come mainly from eggs, meat, olive oil, mayonnaise, Greek yogurt, nuts, butter.

As you said, it’s not vital to be in ketosis, as I’m still losing.
The only reason I bought the test strips is to see if they shed any light when I’m plateauing as I don’t appear to be doing much different at those times..

@HorridHoris

Makes sense.

Good that you’re getting interested but don’t obsess!

Must be the carbs. 20 g or less will get you there. Might be fun to try and see how you feel / what it does. Personally I love the experimentation part. Helps me learn stuff I didn’t know.

Sounds like you are getting there though - new clothes are a great sign. Well done.

I had my 4th run this morning on an empty stomach in the last 5 days. I started with 20 min and today was an hour! I think it is possible because I have been walking my dog for up to one hour today in total and occasional longer walks. I also run very, very slowly not faster than a brisk walk. So today 60 min was 5K I think no more. I also warm up for 10 min and stretch afterwards for 15 min. If I didn't I'd damage my back and put me on rest.

My appetite is suppressed which allows me to easily stick with 16:8 up to 20:4 IF. I am also taking good quality vitamins. I am aiming at 60% fat, 20%carbs and 20% proteins for 1200 cal or less.
Weight is falling off but I'll celebrate when I can sustain it.
For now I am on the high of ketosis and all those other hormones :D

I again can't thank enough @OliviaD68 for your advice and knowledge sharing.

@antimatter

Wow. Fantastic. So happy for you that it’s working out. It sounds like you’ve broken the vicious cycle of weight gain.

Any issues give me a shout.

@OliviaD68, from your experience, what is the best gap to eat after exercise? In case I can't exercise in the morning and then can nip out for some luchtime run how soon to eat LC meal to get best benefits out of it?

@antimatter

I’m going to answer what I think is logical and then come back to you if this is wrong.

My initial view: It depends on the exercise and fuel you burn.

Glucose as a main fuel
Probably not going to last long without fuel as hunger and lightheadedness set in no matter what type of exercise you do.

You’re likely to have used glycogen in muscles and liver so my educated guess would be a few hours after training is best as muscle cells are more open to being replenished by glycogen in the first few hours. This is especially true if you train anaerobically.

And you’ll need cheap carbs like dextrose mainly to get a good quick refill. Bananas too.

Fat as a main fuel (ie you’re in ketosis)
If you train aerobically you should be burning body and dietary fat mainly so there is no real rush to eat. Just eat when you feel like it. Also, I think you benefit from HGH and testosterone for longer the more you put off eating. Insulin makes these two hormones disappear.

Having HGH around for a while post-workout in a fasted state (ie in the morning like you do) is good to assist your muscles in recovery and building new tissue. I need to check this point - I think it’s right but bear with me. I’ll only confirm if it’s wrong.

If you train anaerobically and care about performance best window is right after training and you will need a fair amount of carbs to reload glycogen in muscles. Some people call this a Targeted Ketogenic Diet. It’s what I’m trying and still not got right. I’m getting out of ketosis and probably storing fat so I’m playing around with this.

If you don’t care about performance and train anaerobically it probably makes sense to have a bit of carbs post workout just to not collapse completely next time you train. You can restore glycogen naturally when in ketosis but it takes about a week.

So really the difference between performance and not caring about performance when you train anaerobically is how much carb intake (the lower the carb intake in this case the lower the risk of getting out of ketosis and storing fat).

In your case, you train aerobically - long slow runs vs short intense lung-busting sprints - so I don’t think it matters much as you should be getting energy from belly fat to sustain you. But I’m thinking you could wait an hour or so to benefit from HGH ...

So my current weekday looks like this. Get up at 6:45, get dressed and our by 7, first 5-7 min walk and then very slow run, like I said - shuffling and no faster than 4.5mph (I am wearing fitness watch). back home by 7:45, 15 min stretching, shower, walk to the train and at my desk by 9:20.
SHould I miss morning exercise/run I can run sometime between 11:30-14:30. I eat at work whatever I bring or get something from a supermarket.
I am absolutely after weight loss controlled by exercise and LS/IF.

I weight now 87.4 with a height of 158 cm and should weight no more than 63 at some point. Well, that was my top comfortable weight 21 years ago! I am older etc but from my frame point of view I don;t need to weight below 57 kg (my dream weight maybe). I know that at some point I would need to add weight training, for now I'll stick with running or perhaps HIIT (or aerobic exercise) off Amazon Prime which I tried today and was fine as a warm up before my run (it was raining this morning). Perhaps yoga in the evening.

@antimatter

All sounds great.

My ranking for exercise importance (bearing mind some exercises do a lot of these):

Mobility
Weights
Aerobic cardio
Anaerobic cardio

So anaerobic work should normally be the last thing you introduce because it’s v v hard on the body but still of course very good for you. Something you build up to once you have good musculature and a baseline of aerobic capacity.

Just saying this so you don’t injure yourself ... but you know yourself best!

My mobility is fairly good. I have been walking my dog for 5 years now and stopped commuting to work by car over 2 years ago. Until now I was doing between 12-15k steps a day. So morning walk now is more than doubled in distance to a slow jog. Due to having a dog I would need to be up an hour earlier to go to the gym to do weights first. I think I may do it when I am a bit lighter. I have 2 inexpensive gyms 5-7 min walk from home.
How long are your weight sessions?