Healthier eating advice - Is this too much food per day

[paranoidpammywhammy2]

I'm 5 foot 8 and wear size 18. I'd always been very slim and verging on underweight until about 5 years ago. I wore size 10/12 before. I've always had a huge appetite. People wondered how I stayed slim.

I was happy at size 14. I felt I had a bit of flesh on my bones. My parents made unflattering comments but I ignored them. They have weird food issues and I felt starved by them as a child.

Now at a size 18, I am determined to lose weight as I feel insecure about the size of my belly. I've cut down on unhealthy food, more fruit and veg, drink plenty of water and reduced snacking. I already get plenty of exercise.

I still have a huge appetite but munch on carrots, cucumber, oranges etc. to fill me up. I drink as well if I'm hungry. I took 5 years to gain the weight so plan to lose it gradually.

This is a general typical day's food.

Breakfast - 2 small slices of toast with thin layer peanut butter or bowl of all bran.

Lunch - tin of mushroom soup, 2 low fat cheese slices on 2 small slices of toast

Dinner - large salad with feta, peppers, red onion, cucumber, tomatoes, olives, lettuce and low fat dressing or walnut and feta salad.

Snacks are oranges, cucumber, carrots etc.

I am happy with my diet. I am seeing a small decrease in my belly and feel healthier. I still have a huge appetite and my family still say I'm overeating. I struggle to eat less. Are they right to criticise?

Cut out the carbs (bread) and eat lean meat instead......that's my advice!

Spent too long reading everything, had more to write but run out of time, so must rush off. Will be back later today hopefully.

All this is all very well but surely you need fruit and veg in your diet for vitamins and fibre?

I didn't say that I didn't eat any carbs I said that I didn't eat 'wheat' which if you a read a very interesting book by William Davis MD called Wheat Belly you'll find is worse than sugar for your blood sugar levels.

I eat healthy carbs , whole organic rye bread and rice ,quinoa and organic GF oats. I love fruit and have an org. fruit smoothie every morning with linseeds and ground almonds. I still lost the 3 stone that needed to and am maintaining.

As I said before we are all different, OP if you're happy with your weight loss then ignore your relatives and enjoy your food!

You may want to turn your attention to the quality of your food. Peanut butter, bread and tinned soups/premade dressings tend to be very high in sugar and therefore calorious. Going low fat is also a mistake. You willnust end up eating the calories as carbs which is worse. You're better off making your own food so that you know exactly what you are eating.

Argh so much disordered thinking on this thread

If you're eating enough food at meal times, try having a drink instead of snack. Quite common not to drink enough

People posting on here saying you don't need carbs is claptrap . You need to cut out refined and processed carbs and eat better carbs.

You actually can't really eat anything if you want to "totally cut carbs" as even brocolli contains carbs . The suggestions of 30g of carbs a day is actually advocating a ketogenic diet . I see this bandied about.

Ultimately on the pyramid of needs total calorie in VS calorie out is more important than macros ( protein , carb , fat tracking) for weight loss . So if you burn 1700kl a day and ate 1200kl of carbs you would lose weight . Protein is though good for saiety and makes you feel fuller for longer .

Some people have mentioned carb sensitivity and this is something you have to test as it doesn't apply to everyone - a good way to do this is to have your carb only breakfast and then 1.5 hours later track how you feel - do you feel less energized / like you could eat again! Probably sensitive to carbs.

Slimfast is unhealthy and not sustainable . You could eat a kit kat twice a day and see the same results in weight loss as it is ultimately based on a calorie deficit.

Personally if I were you, given that you are a) not training
b ) need support

I would recommend joining WeightWatchers or Slimming World . What they advocate isn't perfect, BUT I have known countless people achieve long term success using their methods.

Your parent also sound like dicks and you should ignore everything they say .

Good luck . 👍🏽🍀 Feel free to PM if you want any help / support.

TTBB - carbs should not be demonized in this way . You are incorrect .

Girls, seriously.

You can can emotional about food all you want but it’s not going to change how your bodies work.

If you don’t know how they work then you may want to a) do some homework and learn b) refrain from giving advice that is physiologically incorrect and will lead to continued frustration and limited success.

Vacuous statements such as “the body needs (dietary) carbs” without context or science to back then up do not help us progress on our journey towards improved health and weight loss (in that order).

Just so we’re clear : it is a physiological fact that the vast majority of people do not need carbs in their diets. Whatever is needed the body can produce, for most people.

It’s also basic physiology that consumption of carbs beyond a limited amount physiologically restricts the body from burning its own fat. It’s why 70% of the UK population is overweight, 28% is obese and 10% have Diabetes Type 2.

It’s also a fact that excessive carbs in the modern diet causes obesity, diabetes type 2 and contributes to many other diseases like cancer and Alzheimer’s ( now aka Diabetes Type 3).

Some athletes will be different and need carbs for explosive training and performance . But most of us are not athletes that train that way.

So please: let’s remove the vacuity and poorly based advice from our posts, shall we?

Having family who are bariatric surgeons, there is countless research that states for long term weight loss low carb diets are unsustainable and over the long term showed no benefit over low fat or calorie monitored diets.

Everything contains carbs so your advice is stupid and irresponsible . This lady is not trying to get lean, or live an unsustainable or anti social life .

She needs long term approaches and what you've suggested is wrong for her situation .

People on this thread have actively spewed rubbish about ketogenic diets with no reference or back ups or even calling it by its proper name .

Also low carb - "Because low-carbohydrate diets may include significant amounts of fat and cholesterol, which have been associated with elevated low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels, there is concern about their adverse effects on metabolic risk factors."

Also Olivia you sound so much fun at a party!

If you want to read scientific journals I imagine there are better spots than MN for that - although I did just quote one ;)

@graceyg: Bariatric surgery sounds like a great plan. Hey, let's cut out healthy tissue because I can't get my diet straight. Then a year later the bod adapts to a shorter intestine and I get fat again.

Here are some links to peer-reviewed research below many of which compare low carb to low fat diets. They seem pretty categorical to me in terms of success rates - so the empirical evidence validates the physiological theory.

That some people can't stick to lifestyle changes isn't really the fault of the macro combinations which these 'diets' are composed of. Social pressures, media, laziness, etc all cause people to revert to previous habits. I do agree that carbs are tasty - personally I love them; who doesn't? - but it's a choice one has to make: get healthy to get lean or struggle and stay fat and yo-yo. We can only make this choice ourselves. But don't blame the science.

In terms of LDL (which is NOT cholesterol but a protein - a wrapper for triglycerides) and keto / low carb diets, it is true that LDL does increase temporarily, but research is showing that LDL - especially the large LDL proteins - are actually good for the body and are the culprit for LDL marker increase. Small LDL are the ones that get into the arteries and cause inflammation leading to arterial plaque.

Finally, in a low carb environment when fat is being metabolised, the LDL increase does appear to be temporary. It comes down once weight loss has stabilised. This is because the LDL is a result of the body burning its own fat for fuel. So one can surmise that this is no bad thing.

Finally, much to the chagrin of pharma cos selling statins, cholesterol is now not so much the bugbear it was - as research is coming through to debunk the initial - non-researched - consensus that cholesterol causes heart disease. Rather the consensus is that insulin resistance and not elevated cholesterol causes heart disease. Happy to provide some links in case you're interested. Most people aren't and prefer to stay on the 'cholesterol is bad' view.

www.ajcn.org/content/87/3/567.full.pdf
www.ajcn.org/content/86/3/580.full.pdf
archinte.jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/INTEMED/5504/ioi30409.pdf
preventdisease.com/news/12/030112_World-Renown-Heart-Surgeon-Speaks-Out-On-What-Really-Causes-Heart-Disease.shtml
jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/4/1617.full.pdf
annals.org/data/Journals/AIM/20065/0000605-200405180-00006.pdf
www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681
www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-1-13.pdf

Wah wrote a comment then flicked over by accident - starting again.

Wow very short sighted views you have there on what is often a last chance saloon treatment for many after years and years of other methods ( including medically supported ones) have failed . Yes some people think these treatments are a quick fix . My uncle works with people who have exhausted, all other approaches to weight loss and also have had significant mental health issues because of the inability to lose weight . Yes some patients gain it weight again but many many do not and have a far better quality of life due to the surgery.

Low Carb has many proven benefits that I don't doubt and have in the past cycled this approach in my own regime ( I train at a high level) BUT the study I quoted discussed patient adherence and cited many studies only review 6-12 months of adherence because they struggle to see long term patient adherence . THIS IS THE POINT .

This isn't something that is easy to input into your life and also the below study from Harvard also states that the results from a Med Style diet are very similar to LC. I would also argue that MD has easier adherence .

www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/

This diet cites a study of 82k thousand women over 20 years but in further peer reviewed journals there is debate over the very definition of low carb, exacting guidelines to the gram .

Other research states : " the very-high-fat and carbohydrate-free diet was not obesogenic but led to insulin resistance and higher risk of cardiovascular disease."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17714072/

Also further support that Ketoing as you advocate should only be used for 2-3 weeks supplemented by a varied med diet : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

I was NOT advocating bariatric surgery , I have an Aunt and Uncle in that sphere so I have had regular discussions with them regarding all kinds of diets that I myself have dabbled with including Keto. They've shared with me many papers of interest and YES there are very positive impacts especially for those that are diabetic ( OP didn't state she was unless I missed that ) .

But as many people have said , low carb and keto especially is frankly very difficult it to stick to and is fairly unecessary when there are somewhat easier ways to achieve targeted weight

@graceyg I agree that it is difficult for most people to adhere to any ‘diet’, whether keto, paleo, veg whatever. The Harvard study bears that out. It’s a personal choice to change to a different lifestyle and make the change permanent. That’s hard for a lot of reasons.

That doesn’t make a paleo diet or keto or low carb or south beach worse than any other diet. The studies I provided show that low carb is a more effective and healthy than low fat.

I guess what one should be careful of is nothing different from the average modern diet is easy to do. So on that basis should one conclude that nothing is worth trying and adapting to individual needs because you can’t stick to it?

The other study you quoted below is on mice not humans. The problem with mice is they cannot - or hardly - get into ketosis making them physiologically different - in a whole lot of other ways - to humans which can get into ketosis. I guess it doesn’t add value to say mice and humans are different? This type of study is nonetheless helpful because it’s cheaper to run and can lead to the same study on humans leading to a conclusion you can live with.

Would love to see the same study in humans therefore. Pls share if you have it.

You need to read the research Gracey has already posted.

I will have a bruise on Scihub tonight .

I agree with a lot of what you've said , obviously we cannot deny the science but taking into account lifestyle issues I do think that there are notably harder ways to lose and gain.

Re mice stuff yes valid point but the studies are hard as we know to replicate long term with compliant humans ( and monitor) .

My uncle is really interested in none surgical methods ( NHS and not trading off doing private surgeries to anyone who wants them etc) - we have spoken a lot about IF methods that some people have mentioned already and the research around fasting is very interesting both 5:2 and 16:8 .

There have been studies also suggesting this reduces inflammation and dare I say it "cancer risk" but again alas only in mice . Hard to see how they could replicate this in humans without a controlled environment over an extended period.

I have personally done the 5:2 and think it's great ( I'm at a maintenance point with my weight ) and my partner does 16:8 just for the health benefit not weightloss .

What I find interesting about this approach is yes there is some benefits of fasting combined with a lower calorie intake over a longer period BUT it is more sustainable long term as you can eat whenever whatever you want ( within your BMR guided calorie total ) on none days and then as directed on the FD. Good diet from an adherence perspective .

Sorry I see you have.