Healthier eating advice - Is this too much food per day

[paranoidpammywhammy2]

I'm 5 foot 8 and wear size 18. I'd always been very slim and verging on underweight until about 5 years ago. I wore size 10/12 before. I've always had a huge appetite. People wondered how I stayed slim.

I was happy at size 14. I felt I had a bit of flesh on my bones. My parents made unflattering comments but I ignored them. They have weird food issues and I felt starved by them as a child.

Now at a size 18, I am determined to lose weight as I feel insecure about the size of my belly. I've cut down on unhealthy food, more fruit and veg, drink plenty of water and reduced snacking. I already get plenty of exercise.

I still have a huge appetite but munch on carrots, cucumber, oranges etc. to fill me up. I drink as well if I'm hungry. I took 5 years to gain the weight so plan to lose it gradually.

This is a general typical day's food.

Breakfast - 2 small slices of toast with thin layer peanut butter or bowl of all bran.

Lunch - tin of mushroom soup, 2 low fat cheese slices on 2 small slices of toast

Dinner - large salad with feta, peppers, red onion, cucumber, tomatoes, olives, lettuce and low fat dressing or walnut and feta salad.

Snacks are oranges, cucumber, carrots etc.

I am happy with my diet. I am seeing a small decrease in my belly and feel healthier. I still have a huge appetite and my family still say I'm overeating. I struggle to eat less. Are they right to criticise?

[OliviaD68]

@Blahblahboo your macros look great. You must be feeling good. How’s the weight loss progressing?

@paranoidpammywhammy2 try again tomorrow. Really need to stick to it so you can get results.

[Blahblahboo]

I have noticed a few inches off the thighs , face and belly but unfortunately I don't think the belly will make too much difference from two pregnancies. However it's more about a change of lifestyle and health ( abnormal smear test result) .
Weight loss is a good result of being healthier though so it does feel good , I too intend on my children growing up in low carb and healthy for their good.
Low to no wheat, low to no soy and low processed sugar. Doesn't mean to say I don't allow the occasional treats like pizza etc but just not too often.
What's good for me is good for everyone right.

[PostNotInHaste]

I'm sorry but I'm going to be cynical again. I don't think the language being used here is very helpful and part of the reason there are such bad figures generally for people keeping the weight off in the longterm. Yesterday was absolutely not a fail fir the OP and in my opinion talk of it being so risks very highly creating a mindset of either being on a diet or failing at it. Once you introduce the concept of failing I think longterm there is a risk of the fuck it button going off and the reason the long term maintainence figures are so low are because people either see themselves as on or off a diet and if they have what they perceive as fails it is more likely to lead to eating behaviour that sabotages long term weight maintenance.

I had a very much less than optimal nutrition day yesterday that I'm sure a lot of people would call a fail. I ate slightly less than I burned off and complimented the rest of the week in leading to a weight loss.

It is not helpful to talk of peas and carrots as failing. And I stand by what I said earlier about it being unwise to bring children up low carb without proper medical advice.

[PostNotInHaste]

I feel really sorry for the OP. First she has her parents being weird about food, now she has people on here telling her what she ate was a fail. I appreciate she used the word first but even so, it's not helpful.

For anyone lurking please do not put a child on low carb diet unless you have proper medical supervision. I think the MN Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any medical concerns we suggest you consult your GP. definitely applies here.

What's good for me is good for everyone right.. Put simply , no. There are some conditions that mean people will have slightly different nutritional requirements. And I had my gallbladder removed a few months ago so if I followed Low Carb High Fat I would be on the toilet the entire day as my body couldn't cope with it and my blunt speaking surgeon would tell me I'm a dick and that I should have known better .

[Nancy91]

Agreed that the OP has not failed! To be honest I think previous posters somehow equate health with avoiding certain foods, but when you do that you miss out on certain vitamins needed for good health. It's not all about weight, you don't want to become deficient in anything.

I don't encourage cutting out any food groups, it's not good for your mind to feel deprived! Eat a bit of everything in moderation. If you don't enjoy a way of eating you will never stick to it and you shouldn't do that to yourself.

[Blahblahboo]

I never said I wouldn't ever allow my children to have carbs. I said as a treat which is what things like pizza, chips, and McDonald's and things should be, and way too many children are eating all day every day as their meals.

www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/

[Abra1d]

It is not helpful to talk of peas and carrots as failing

I entirely agree.

[Blahblahboo]

In response to postonhaste

www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-kids

Really look at the food you are feeding your children and look at the amount of carbs and sugar. It is disgusting. As I said i will feed my children whole non processed food which yes does include little wheat products , because wheat is now heavily processed too and chock full of sugar.
My children will be super healthy and most importantly not diabetic or reliant on sugar

[ppeatfruit]

Sorry Nancy But it's just not true that we have to eat from all the food groups. You didn't catch cavemen and women eating highly processed wheat products and tons of sweeteners.

The huge monopolies are the only beneficiaries from that philosophy, and they carry on promoting it heavily (I wonder why?). Nowadays so many prepared foods are not fresh or free from fillers and rubbish, therefore you're very unlikely to get ANY minerals or vitamins from them.

I get unpleasant health problems from eating dairy and wheat, so I don't eat them and am the healthiest 66 yr old I know (including lots of younger people ).

[Nancy91]

ppeatfruit, if I got no vitamins or minerals from prepared foods, I would be dead, so that's a load of rubbish, plenty of nutrients are bioavailable from processed foods.

The caveman argument is ridiculous, they died really young of very basic ailments and we are very different now to how we were then.

As I said, I compete and I need to keep my body in peak physical condition, I don't cut out any food groups and I am very lean and healthy. Avoiding peas, carrots and bananas (those are just a few things listed by pervious posters) is not necessary to be healthy. I'm not saying you need to eat crap, but you don't need to avoid food groups unless you have food intolerances. I have explained up thread that I can't workout as efficiently with depleted glycogen stores from a lack of carbs, so while you don't need carbs to survive, they certainly help with strenuous physical activity and workouts.

[PostNotInHaste]

I know Blahblahboo . I have to as DH had a virus when he was 9 ( a very thin 9 year old if that is relevant) which knocked out his pancreas so has been type 1 for the best part of 30 years. I know exactly what I am feeding my children and how diabetes affects people, I really do, I live it every morning when I start my day hoping DH hasn't slept through the signs of a hypo and won't start the day fitting due to low blood sugar. One of my best friends is a lead specialist diabetes nurse, her son was diagnosed a year or so ago and my cousin was diagnosed when he was a year older than my DS is now (both the latter type1).

My issue is that some of the things you have posted are medically questionable, Nancy has gone into that earlier up the thread . I appreciate fully this is coming from a good place but I think we as a virtual community need to be incredibly careful what we (collectively) are advising people to do in relation to children's diets. It is really really important that if anyone has any doubts at all they seek proper medical advice.

Anyway this isn't helping the OP at all so I will bow out and wish her luck .

[crazypenguinlady]

This thread has absolutely angered me with some of the replies. Quite frankly, some of the "advice" is scary and dangerous. I'm actually aghast.

OP, please, please, please do not listen to Olivia and Blah! Telling you that you have failed by eating carrots and peas, insisting that you forgo a banana and some fruits, and for a small amount of potato in a soup?? Only eating once a day? Are they fucking serious? They are telling you that you are making your daughter addicted to sugar and carbs.

They sound as deranged and controlling as your parents. Spewing stuff like this without knowing anything about you/your health is seriously dangerous and worrying. The fact that one of them is bringing their son up on a low carb diet is telling.

Please do not take their advice! I'm sat here reading their replies with my mouth literally hanging open.

Yes, opt for full fat cheese and yoghurt is better (low sugar is full of addictives) but to subsist on these with eggs, meat, etc and no fruit is NOT healthy!

OP, your overall diet sounds fine. Lots of veg, salad, fruit, meat etc. It'll take time but you're heading in the right direction. Low carb isn't necessary, Look at Asian and Mediterranean diets - they have some of the healthiest in the world and eat pasta/rice.

I have go out now but please do not listen to these posters!

[OliviaD68]

@crazypenguinlady thanks for the post.

Interesting contribution.

Which part of the science do you disagree with? It appears you may have access to facts - empirical studies maybe? - that I may not have.

so I’d love to get access to any research you may have collated. Subject matter is healthfulness of a low carb, controlled protein and high fat diet (with lots of leafy veg). This is also known as the ketogenic diet.

Also of interest is understanding why fasting intermittently is bad for humans.

Your reaction is not unusual. Many people in my life are concerned about the food macros I favour for weight loss and also food timing - ie fasting. I do tactically add carbs to my diet because like @Nancy91 I need them to restore muscle glycogen after hard anaerobic workouts. But most people don’t train like @Nancy91 And I do.

And while I think I have done the research to support my lifestyle but maybe I’m wrong. So I always look for angles I may have missed.

I regularly ask for facts to support assertions about a LCHF diet and intermittent fasting being unhealthy but not yet received anything in over a year of success - so far it seems concerns are expressed supported by perception or opinion.

So if you can show me where such a combination of food macros or IF may lead to poor health that would be great. I care more about Health than staying lean (I’m sub 20% body fat).

[crazypenguinlady]

I won't be able to reply properly to you until later this evening Olivia but yes I used to be into intense training (body weight and weight training) I have NEVER viewed lo e carb as healthy.
Why are you telling OP that she has 'failed' for eating carrots and peas?? They are chock full of nutrients. As are bananas. FFS.

[Blahblahboo]

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/21/amp/intermittent-fasting-calorie-restriction.aspx#ampshare=articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/21/intermittent-fasting-calorie-restriction.aspx" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/amp/s/articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/21/amp/intermittent-fasting-calorie-restriction.aspx#ampshare=articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/21/intermittent-fasting-calorie-restriction.aspx

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.esquire.com/lifestyle/health/amp52720/intermittent-fasting/#ampshare=www.esquire.com/lifestyle/health/a52720/intermittent-fasting/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/amp/www.esquire.com/lifestyle/health/amp52720/intermittent-fasting/#ampshare=www.esquire.com/lifestyle/health/a52720/intermittent-fasting/

www.goodtoknow.co.uk/wellbeing/543152/16-8-diet-plan

[Blahblahboo]

Now for the peas and carrots question. They are very starchy and increase blood sugar levels. I personally never eat peas normally anyways , nor corn, but I have easily given up potato and carrot ( with the promise that one day a week I will enjoy some nice mash potatoes or something else carby) .
As for the skipping meals it is very healthy and it means I don't have to calorie count. It regulates blood sugar which is important as diabetes is in my family. My mother for example is constantly eating carbs in the form of so called healthy pies and quiches , potatoes, etc and her diabetes is getting worse

www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/vegetables
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/ketogasm.com/ultimate-low-carb-vegetables-list/amp/#ampshare=ketogasm.com/ultimate-low-carb-vegetables-list/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/amp/s/ketogasm.com/ultimate-low-carb-vegetables-list/amp/#ampshare=ketogasm.com/ultimate-low-carb-vegetables-list/

[OliviaD68]

I didn’t use the word fail. She will be slowed down in achieving her goal but so long as she gets there it doesn’t matter. A slow conversion from glucose as a fuel to fat as a fuel is fine - many people do that.

I think in @paranoidpammywhammy2 and everyone actually context matters. As it does for me and @Nancy91 and you. We all have different objectives and lifestyles.

In the case of @paranoidpammywhammy2 I have understood her to be overweight, not to do anaerobic exercise, to be reasonably active but not for example to undertake any particular aerobic exercise.

And so she fits into a category not unlike most of the UK population.

Bearing this in mind and a fat loss objective it therefore makes sense for her to undertake a LCHF diet. Intermittent fasting can be added later - personally I would not do IF for a few weeks until one is fat adapted - it’s too hard.m. All the research I’ve read up on both seems to stack up solidly in favour of health and weight loss so I’m looking forward to understanding the science that challenges this.

What this is intended to do, biologically speaking is :

• starve the body of glucose, thus reducing blood insulin

• promote secretion of glucagon to signal the liver to access body fat which cannot otherwise be accessed if insulin is present in the blood

• ensure consumption of a lot of low net carb veg to ensure access to nutrients. You don’t need nutrients from fruit if you get them from veg. And fruit has fructose so insulin spikes up when they are eaten meaning you can’t access the 200000 kcal fridge around your belly

• manage animal protein to about 50g per day - just what the body needs for 9 essential amino acids it can’t synthesise on its own. Consumption of protein beyond about 1g per kg of Lean body mass typically undergoes conversion to glucose which again spikes insulin. Process is called gluconeogenesis which can also occur with fat.

• in the case of *@paranoidpammywhammy2* she does not need carbs given her lifestyle. Her body will produce the glucose it needs (eg brain need about 30g a day) from a) the small amount of net carbs she consumes and b) once in ketosis, from fat metabolism, in particular gluconeogenesis of glycerol which is one of the components of triglycerides or fat.

• her main fuel will therefore be ketone bodies which are synthesised from fatty acids. Provided she not undertake anaerobic exercise her muscles, organs and brain will be happy fuelling themselves via two main ketone bodies. It will expel the third - being acetone - via urine and the lungs.

• This approach should initially lead to a reduction in cortisol which is another hormone that enables water retention so *@paranoidpammywhammy2* will lose a lot of weight initially but it will not be fat. Still the psychological effects of this step are good. This is not dissimilar to other food macro combinations

Let me know if you disagree with any of the above. And pls send me links to the research you have that challenges this or IF as a good timing technique.

As you can tell I’m very keen on understanding biological processes and health so pls pls do share.

[OliviaD68]

@Blahblahboo I agree with you based on everything I have researched and I’ve done a lot of it. The science seems very sound both theoretically and empirically speaking - ie tested on humans and not rabbits or mice.

But I think we should let @crazypenguinlady provide us with the facts she has assembled so that we can learn from her. There may be things we have missed because of confirmation bias - ie we ignore information that doesn’t suit our story. Humans love to do that: make a story up and then collect information to support that story.

But while we all are entitled to our opinions we are not entitled to have a different set of facts. Facts are facts.

[Blahblahboo]

www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/fruits

I favour the moderate with 20 to 50 grams of carbs so i don't have to stress and weigh things out too much. with me skipping breakfast and doing full fast days I doubt I go too far over 20 grams anyways . However I am looking forward to my one high carb day where I can enjoy the pizza in my freezer lol. I just need to follow it with 24 hours of fasting, tonight however I'm thinking tuna salad with Greek yoghurt and for lunch eggs and bacon. Maybe a snack of nuts again later.
It really can be very satisfying and filling which is good, as having experienced caloire controlled low fat diets I was constantly hungry and had to stop. This for me is a permanent life style change and I don't intend on going back to my old habits.

[Blahblahboo]

@OliviaD68 i think she has fallen victim to the food study's from the likes of Kellogg's who coincidentally funded the firsy study that breakfast and three meals a day are apparently good for you. Kinda like it was the ciggerette company's that first funded studies that said smoking was good for you and encouraged pregnant women to smoke lol

[AFewThings]

What PostNotInHaste said, with a million bells on it. Why I've not posted on this thread.

[Ploppie4]

Aim for 10 portions of veg/fruit plus palm size amount of protein at each meal.

[Ploppie4]

Plus some carbs

[SerPants]

Nobody in the history of the world ever got fat from eating carrots and peas.

OP, please don't let some of the well-meaning advice in this thread add to the issues you already have around food. In answer to your OP, no, your parents are not right to criticise.

I am happy with my diet. I am seeing a small decrease in my belly and feel healthier. This is so important. Your food sounds fine. Your parents are the problem. And some of the strange posts on here.

No need to overcomplicate things. Plenty of veg and some fruit, as much variety as you can. It's all full of nutrients. Lean meat and fish, eggs, dairy unless you're intolerant. Reasonable amounts of carbs (pasta, rice, bread, potatoes) are fine and very tasty. They are not the enemy. A little processed food won't harm you, but don't eat tons as it usually contains a lot of extra sugar and salt. Avoid junk food and alcohol most of the time, but, again, a little won't harm you. Everything in moderation.

[paranoidpammywhammy2]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your comments. I've been having eggs with and without bacon for breakfast and this does seem to have stopped my mid morning snacking.

My lunch hasn't been enough to stop my afternoon snacking, so I'm still tweaking that. I also had a few drinks last night.

I've not lost any weight in the past three days but my belly is looking much less bloated so I will be sticking with low carbs as much as possible as I think that is the cause.

I am quite strong and open to hearing different opinions. It is my families remarks that I find hard to take. I enjoy my food and socialising but do not enjoy my diet to be a focus at family activities.

Our family do have some weird food issues and maybe a bit of body dysmorphia/munchausen's by proxy around food. I am about a stone overweight - and while I think I need to lose 2 dress sizes, my parents have an underweight ideal target weight for me. I think it's very important that their views don't impact on my daughters upbringing.