Help me break the starve and binge cycle ... please!

[runningLou]

Am in dire straits at the moment, food-wise. Am a secret snacker, binge eater, reach for carbs at any/all moments of the day. Then feel guilty, restrict, do juicing, low-carb etc. My weight is yo-yo-ing massively - a stone up and down, and up, since Christmas.
I am not hugely overweight - yet - as I exercise a lot, cycle everywhere etc, but I am due to go in for a knee op at the end of the month and won't be able to exercise for a while, so I want to change my eating habits before then.
I know a lot of this is due to other stuff in my life - work, marriage stress etc, but I really need to change the way I eat for physical and mental health.
I can't talk about this with family, as my sister is a recovering anorexic. I haven't mentioned it to friends either.
I am thinking of trying Harcombe as a lot of what ZH says about food addiction really rings true with me and I know I have serious issues with sugar cravings and candida.
Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I'm very similar with carb cravings and a tendency to binge, and I have had recurrent candida as a result. At the moment, what is working is using MyFitnessPal to log everything I eat (even the secret binge times). I usually manage to go under my calories for the day, and sometimes quite a lot under-- which is usually followed by a binge two days later where I'm starving and eat back most of the calories in carbs. So if I want to avoid binging, I have to make sure that I'm eating all the calories for the day.

Having everything logged also helps me to view it longer term and see that by the end of the week I still have a deficit and I'm still losing weight. The MFP forums also have groups for people who binge eat, so there's great support there.

hi Lou, we've chatted before and I know you joined the BED support thread for a while but decided to go back to calorie counting. This may well be more of my advice you don't want to hear so click away now if you want but...to break the binge/restrict cycle you must try and let go (at least temporarily) of the desire to lose/control your weight - it is this that leads to restriction and then the binges. Can you acknowledge that your repeated attempts to diet just aren't working? I think until you can admit that a different approach is needed (even your OP suggests that you want to change your habits not for your health but because you are afraid of gaining weight when you can't exercise away calories), you are likely to be stuck.

Harcombe may well be a fantastic way of eating and I am all for cutting out sugar but it is yet another set of rules you are placing on yourself and so its sadly unlikely to change the situation by itself...you need to find a way of losing the fear that once you eat according to your hunger you will never stop and so gain stones in a matter of weeks. If you can find a nourishing approach, to feed your body well, to listen and respond to true physical hunger, rather than trying to stick to someone else's rules and what you think you 'should' weigh then you will make progress. Perhaps the period when you are recovering from your OP would be a good time to try this?

As you mention in your OP, I know you also have a lot of other very stressful stuff going on in your life - but you need to find ways, however small, of addressing and coping with these too because they will absolutely be affecting the binges .

A few people on the BED thread are following the Dr Fairburn 'Overcoming Binge Eating' book and programme. Would you consider that?

Zoe Harcombe is very cagey about her qualifications, which implies that she doesn't have any. Suggest seeing a real doctor for a referral. As you know what you are doing is damaging your health so please get help ASAP.

no shame in food issues!

runninglou IIWM I'd look at Paul Mckenna (I Can Make you Thin) silly title but he addresses ALL the emotional issues to do with eating.

So rather than what we eat it's WHEN, WHY , WHERE and HOW. The Last one is the most important IME. (I lost nearly 3 stone and am maintaining just with those principles but I combine with healthy eating . There's a brilliant support thread on here.

REF. Harcombe I'm a bit [sceptical] about any diet which restricts or bans fruit because I lost weight eating fruit.

To be fair ppeat, a candida diet (not intended as a weight loss diet) will involve cutting out sugar, including in fruit, amongst many other things-it's a pretty severe regime but necessary to get rid of candida. But I think the bingeing needs to be addressed before the candida, I can't see it working the other way around. Paul McKenna may well be worth a try too, but anything with restrictions on what or what specific quantities/calories you should eat, won't be (IMO).

Are you still under a psychiatrist for this problem? What was their way for you to deal with this?

Sleep I think that the addictive qualities of some foods are much stronger than we realise e.g. wheat,salt and sugar, people get to crave these almost, or as much as, alcohol or nicotine. Leading to binges in susceptible individuals.

There a very few doctors medical or psychiatric who address the above problem. Jemmi

oh absolutely ppeat, I agree. But the much, much, more typical cause of most bingeing is restricting in the first place, as Lou describes. To address binge eating you need a multi-faceted approach but it starts with letting go of strict rules and just eating regular meals that include some decent food - the cause of lots of binges will be physiological, because you are literally starving your body of nutrients to get or stay slim and/or 'atone' for a binge (which typically won't have provided your body with the nutrition it is craving either, more often it will be empty calories, sugar, poor quality fat and refined carbs). Unless you have tipped in to anorexic territory, it will be impossible to ignore your body's screams of hunger forever and that is when a binge will happen. When binge eaters stop restricting and start feeding their their bodies regularly, typically the incidences of binges reduce significantly. Those that remain can then be looked at to see what triggers them, which could be psychological/emotional or indeed a reaction to a 'trigger' food.

And yes, I'm sure many readers suffering with disordered eating will have laughed hollowly at the mention of psychiatric treatment Jemmi

True sleep eating proper food (not junk) when we're hungry, really tasting it, slowly and consciously and stopping when we are full a la Mckenna that's how to lose the binge mentality and excess weight .

I'm lucky because i've never binged or counted calories, weighed food,etc. but I still had a fair amount of weight to lose, only Mckenna worked though.

Sleep pp I think Jemmi was referring to OPs old thread where she was actually under a psychiatrist for her problems. I read this too and was waiting for the answer.

The book that opened my eyes was Overcoming Overeating by Jane Hirschman in the early nineties. Paul McKenna and others have followed on from these earlier ideas.

No, I am not seeing a psychiatrist - I saw one twice back at the beginning of 2014 but then as I was due to move house they discharged me. My BMI is normal so there was no treatment offered. I have been to the GP since moving house but again, no help. I fully understand this as having seen what my sister went through I know that sometimes there aren't enough resources for people who are really malnourished.
I paid to see an independent counsellor after I was discharged last year but found it utterly useless. She made me keep a food diary and was just unable to understand the problem, as I was eating 3 meals a day, healthy food, lots of protein, fruit and veg - she couldn't see where the disorder was.
I am not malnourished as I do generally eat healthily and my binges are over and above my general healthy diet. I don't think they are to do with craving nourishment, it really is a sugar addiction.
I am trying Harcombe this week. I am really, really struggling with the no coffee (only have 1 cup a day, but boy do I need it) and no sugar. No carbs is utter hell for me. Am craving fruit and crackers! But, I've literally done 2 days so it's too early to tell if this will have any impact. Feel like I'm wading through treacle, have brain fog, achy limbs and am exhausted. Went to bed at 8:00pm last night.
I do know what's healthy and I do feed my body well, most of the time. I did a juicing diet in January which was really effective and I lost a stone but I think the juicing just redoubled my sugar cravings which is what really makes me feel like I'm losing control. I cannot have one biscuit - I eat the packet. Every time.
sleep I hear what you say about restricting but I am not ready just to eat without some kind of control or I would very quickly become obese with the amount of cakes and biscuits I would cram in. It's only the trips to the gym that are saving me from being utterly overweight.

Running, Sleep is spot on. Until you give up the diet mentality you will continue the binge diet cycle. No one can do it but you.

The only way I was able to stop overeating for reasons other than true hunger was to stock my kitchen with all the foods I love. Once my brain got used to there being all types of food in my kitchen then the overeating and dieting started to stop. Fifteen years on and I still buy all foods I want but they last a long time. I don't gain weight. Just est when I am really physically hungry and stop when satisfied which is generally four mouthfuls. I can always go back to it later.

And I hear you Lou, saying exactly the same thing as you were 18 months ago when we first 'met' on MN. Your binges may not physiologically driven if you are eating nutritious food but they will be affected by the restrictions you impose on yourself with a diet. Also consider that when you eat you may be seeking nourishment of a different kind (affection, sex, creativity, being true to yourself...) - things we need just as much as calories and vitamins but that we can never get from food .

Just for your own interest Lou, it may be useful to write out your whole dieting history over the years, as a chronology - from when you first started, what you did, what your weight did, what your binges did, what happened after that...then see if you are still convinced that diets get you where you want to be.

We're going round in circles here though sleep You agreed that the cravings for high sugar, wheat and salt are almost impossible to control . As Lou seems to realise . The 'eat anything' regime wouldn't (didn't) work for her.

IMO it can't work because there are certain [non] foods that switch off the 'fullness' feeling. It's like telling an alcoholic to drink anything they like it won't work.

They are impossible to control when you see them as bad foods. When you see food as good and bad then you try not to eat them until you can't resist anymore and then you binge.

Have you tried 5:2?

They are impossible to control when you see them as bad foods. When you see food as good and bad then you try not to eat them until you can't resist anymore and then you binge.

I disagree about there being no unhealthy or healthy foods. The moralistic angle (good or bad) is ridiculous that's all.

Wheat is addictive, including the so called healthy organic wholegrain bread. So is high sugar stuff like the fizzy brown sugar drink cxkx, it removes your taste buds (like smoking) so you can't actually taste anything unless it's packed with sugar or salt or vinegar, etc.

milli Have a look at the book Wheat Belly and Grain Brain if you don't believe me which of course you don't.

ppeat I am on the same page with you with a lot of nutrition based stuff but when it comes to binge eating things get a lot more complicated. I believe (unlike some) that people can be addicted to certain foods and Lou could possibly be one of them, but those cases are very much in the minority and when it comes to binge eating, in the vast majority of cases the sufferer will be stuck in diet mentality. This needs to be addressed first and then you can start experimenting with elimination diets for health - not weight loss.