Help me break the starve and binge cycle ... please!

[runningLou]

Am in dire straits at the moment, food-wise. Am a secret snacker, binge eater, reach for carbs at any/all moments of the day. Then feel guilty, restrict, do juicing, low-carb etc. My weight is yo-yo-ing massively - a stone up and down, and up, since Christmas.
I am not hugely overweight - yet - as I exercise a lot, cycle everywhere etc, but I am due to go in for a knee op at the end of the month and won't be able to exercise for a while, so I want to change my eating habits before then.
I know a lot of this is due to other stuff in my life - work, marriage stress etc, but I really need to change the way I eat for physical and mental health.
I can't talk about this with family, as my sister is a recovering anorexic. I haven't mentioned it to friends either.
I am thinking of trying Harcombe as a lot of what ZH says about food addiction really rings true with me and I know I have serious issues with sugar cravings and candida.
Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I have read them years ago PP. We are talking about someone who uses so called treat/bad foods to binge on after weeks of eating fruit, veg, protein etc. By avoiding these foods she is ending up overeating on them when the binge strikes for whatever reason. It is only your opionion that wheat is actually addictive. Same with coke. I have no problem with any food because I totally gave up eating in disordered ways. I have disagreed with you on this many times before. You follow The Blood Group Diet and combine it with The Hay Diet and then say you do Paul McKenna. From what I have read there are many people who think the Blood Group is unproved.

I eat loads of veg, fruit, protein, nuts, meat, fish etc and always have but because treat/bad foods were denied me as a child they were my go to when overeating. Once I legalised all food as just food then the desire to overeat them disappeared.

Agree. Diets have go us so mixed up about food. Nothing wrong with any food if it agrees with you and you like it. Obsessing about what is healthy and not healthy is pointless and misses the point of enjoying food. We are all different and like different things.

So how would you treat an alcoholic or a nicotine addict Millie? Fill the house with as many fags or bottles of vodka as poss.?

It's true I was never denied food as treats as a child so that could be why I don't need to binge. But it's down to the mentality against the physicality isn't it? P.M. tries to address those issues but it doesn't seem to work for health does it?

That's why I follow other ways of eating too which suit me fine. I'm the only 64 yr old I know in very good health

ppeatfruit what a silly statement.

Effii It's not silly If you read a book called Grain Brain and another called Wheat Belly you will see that some people are addicted to wheat in a similar way as if it were alcohol, that's why I don't reckon just having loads of it in the house is going to make a difference to SOME sensitive people.

Obviously it's not true for everyone we're all different.

Read them. If you have never been a binge eater then it would seem you don't understand.

Running I see that your sister is anorexic and you have tried to get help for your own binge cycles. Do you think there is a connection ?

I do understand because dh craves wheat and alcohol. As does dd2. And she always buys what she wants, (I didn't ban 'treats') she still can't stop craving it whether loads of 'treats' are there or not.

If you read those books you will have noted the incredible health benefits from stopping eating wheat, well worth giving it up IMO.

I said I have read them, thank you.
Running Sleep has a good understanding of emotional eating disorders. Maybe she could help you one to one?

I know what you are saying about getting out of the 'diet' mentality, sleep, but in practice what does this actually look like? Eat what you want, when you want, and don't care if you gain weight? I don't want to be like that. Eat everything in moderation? I would like to reach this place, but at the moment I can't do it. My only mode of operation around carbs like biscuits and cake is either not to have, or to binge. Last weekend I bought a packet of biscuits - not sure why, and I know it was stupid. But I ate them all, that evening, secretly. I then felt sick, and was up half the night with indigestion. But when I saw a packet of similar biscuits at work a couple of days ago, I took the whole packet to my office and sat at my desk stuffing them in - again, alone. I managed to stop at 4 and then I put the packet back in the staffroom and deliberately plated the biscuits up to encourage other people to eat them and didn't go back in for the rest of the day.
I know this behaviour is abnormal. It makes me feel like crap, just like gaining all this weight recently has made me feel like crap. My BMI remains normal, but I feel far from normal. I cannot talk to family or friends. DH has barely scratched the surface.
You asked me to write down a history of me and dieting, to show me that diets don't work. The thing is, for me they do. Twice in my life I have followed a diet of cereal for breakfast, cheese and salad for lunch, followed by a cereal bar, and muesli, fruit and yogurt for tea. Then a while ago it was pointed out to me this was pure carbs (despite this I had lost almost 3 stone on this diet, when combined with lots of exercise) and that I should introduce more protein. It's since I've been doing this, and trying to eat more veg, fish, etc, that the carbs have been sidelined and I have binged. I have tried Dukan (lost weight but subsequently carb-binged), 5:2 (lost weight but subsequently binged on all foods), juicing (lost weight but subsequently binged on all foods) and now Harcombe this week. Lost no weight due to eating large meals as the only way to keep carb cravings at bay for me is to eat a lot more. I also craved sugar all the time.
The two times I managed to lose weight on the carb-heavy diet mentioned above where before my wedding, and then after DC2 when I was having an affair - I barely dare mention this on MN as I then get flamed and told this is all my own doing and what I deserve. I am at my wit's end.

Google - Beyond Chocolate. Changed my life.

And all the best for the op

runninglou Listen to your own body !!!!! We're all different!!!!! If you were happy and healthy without high protein AND you lost weight then go for it!

I tried Atkins for 2 days and felt terrible with it so i didn't bother, I very rarely eat meat, Sometimes maybe every 2 weeks I have fish and I'm fine!!

Beyond Chocolate is an excellent resource Honeypot, I agree.

Lou to me, a diet hasn't 'worked' if following weight loss you quickly regain the weight and end up with more disordered eating patterns than before. The fact that you lost weight on a carb heavy diet suggests to me that you aren't addicted to those foods, otherwise you would have overeaten them and gained weight? You are switching from one diet to another, constantly labelling foods as good or bad and always restricting in some way, living in fear of food and weight gain and always ending up bingeing. That's putting you into a state of chronic stress which also works counter to weight loss. There is a step (and a lot of work) between this and a balanced relationship with food that you describe and yes, it may involve a little weight gain until you truly drop the restrictions in your head. It's a process that involves acceptance of your body as it is now, also of how it may change - so that you come from a place of wanting to respect and care for it, not force it into being something you've decided it should be. It involves getting back in touch with your true appetite and working with it. Then you will find your natural healthy weight and it may not be the arbitrary number you think is the right one now, but you will be free of diets, of the health risks and psychological pain of bingeing. You can live your life properly. As part of the process, you need to focus on other parts of life that you may be distracting yourself from (with food issues). If your marriage needs changing somehow, you need to do that. Or maybe there are other areas that need addressing-do you get enough time to yourself? How is work? Do you do anything creative? Do you move regularly in a way you love? Do you have healthy boundaries with people? Maybe you should be speaking to your family about your disordered eating? I know it's not as immediately dangerous as your DSis' anorexia but it is just as important, as are you. So many of these things and more create unhappiness and low self esteem and food/weight is used as smokescreen/comfort/gag.

And you need to forgive yourself for the affair Lou, think about why it happened, particularly in the context of my questions above about life in general

ppeat I'm sorry but you are being less than helpful here. First you have no idea what, if any, weight Lou needed to lose at any point. The carby diet she details would have been calorie counted and, I would guess, identical every day. Without knowing details of the salad it looks like a diet very low on veg, high in sugar, virtually devoid of good fat and low in protein. Cereal for breakfast and dinner?! How can that be a healthy way to live ?

HI Running, i used to starve and binge (and throw up), i never had any help for it and i am not sure what really caused it but prob miserable childhood and an EA relationship.

The one thing that has worked for me is Low carb, high fat - i do the bootcamp on here. This has REALLY worked for me, i havent binged or been sick in well over a year ( hasnt really been a problem in about 6 yrs) and i have absolutely no desire to. My life is fab now and i am very happy which can only help!
Even though i have been happy for 7 yrs i still struggled occasionally until i found LCHF. I think the carbs triggered something in me, the rest of it in the past was emotional.

As it got my blood sugars under control i no longer have a massive desire to eat carbs, the appetite suppresion that a ketogenic diet offers means that i feel satisfied and am actually LOSING weight. I know some people have a real problem with low carb diets and i am not here to defend my descision, i just want to let you know what has worked for me.

I am 5 st over weight and HFLC is the only diet i have ever had an success with, i actually dont think of it as a diet as i will low carb for the rest of my life. I have had a little fall off of the wagon and i get bad cravings again and felt very hungry ALL THE TIME. Also i have noticed carbs make me feel terrible, IBS, sore joints, tired and moody.

The only problem is now i dont have food to hide behind i have had to face head on my problems with certain situations which is challenging but worth it, i feel much more balanced now!

I wish you loads of luck in whatever you do. Pop over to the low carb bootcamp thread we are lovely and very supportive.

HFLC means i am satisfied in the food i eat, i eat tonnes of green veg, moderate protein and lots of fat. My diet is loads healthier than it has been at any time and i truly believed apart from my binges of unhealthy junk (biscuits, cheese, icecream and toast) i had a very healthy diet. I have done EVERY diet going with limited success but could never develop healthy eating patterns that would stick with me for life - mainly because on low fat i was starving al the time - i had to keep my cals so low to loose weight it was impossible to maintain.

Now i dont count cals AT ALL but i do look at the carb content of things, i virtually never buy processed food and cook from scratch all the time. My appetite now feels normal (whatever normal is!) and i dont feel guilty or bad about food, i dont hate my body (whilst i am still overweight) and i cant explain how this has revolutionised my life - without sounding over dramatic!! I could only see a future with diabetes and plus sized clothing, i honestly had almost given up on ever getting to a healthy weight again - then mumsnet and the low carb bootcamp saved the day!!

Actually succeeding in losing weight has given me the push to make changes in other areas that i have wanted to but felt unable to. I will always keep my carbs low although when i get to goal i wont restrict certain carbier veg, i cant imagine ever eating cereal for breakfast, sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner ever again.

I love cauli rice now and swede mash and cauli mash and dont miss the real thing.

Sorry i know i sound like an infomercial for LCHF but it saved me. Let us know how you get on.

PS the diet delusion by Gary Taubes and books like the Wheat belly are a great place to explore further. The dietdoctor website too.

mrssteve well done on getting to a better place with food. What jumps out at me from your posts though, is that you got your life sorted out first presumably by ditching EA husband, before finding success with LCHF. You say yourself that your binges stopped 6 years before you started that WOE, therefore it wasn't a diet that changed things for you? My point-another diet is the very last thing Lou needs right now.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now. Lou for as long as you can read your post detailing your dieting history and think that diets work for you then I'm not sure you'll be able to move on . If/when you can if be happy to chat to you, PM me if you like. I think a different coach or counsellor would be the best way for you to change the pattern but you have to be willing to at least let go of being on a diet for a while. Good luck

Quite possibly SLEEP but i do believe it goes hand in hand to a point.

I had a difficult childhood and a 10 yr EA relationship (not DH thankfully) - it took me a long time to realise it for what it was.

I found that the binging and starving still followed me (into my happy life) as it was my coping mechanism and it was ingrained as thats what i did. I was so desperate to loose weight (put on 3st after giving up fags and needed to loose atleast that to be 12st for my wedding) that i would starve myself and then as i couldnt sustain it i would binge and then it creates a cycle and i would feel guilty and awful and the cycle would start again - (although by this point i wasnt throwing up anymore).

Should have been clearer throwing up stopped yrs ago (regularly atleast) but starving and bingeing was my diet strategy up to and between pregnancies until i found HFLC. I now know i wont go back to starving and bingeing as i have found something sustainable that works, so have no need to.

The emotional side is more difficult to cope with admittedly but when you take away frustration at not loosing weight, carb cravings, guilt about food, detest of your body etc it all becomes easier.

A relative i am very close to has just found out that they have cancer and i got a shock when i realised i didnt want to binge and comfort eat - i just cried instead. Much healthier response!

This is what has worked for me and its a bit of a revelation seeing it all written down as it has felt quite an organic change and one that has occurred without a great deal of thought.

hi OP I'm not familiar with your past threads I'm afraid as I'm pretty new here myself, but I have struggled on and off with binging/starving in the past.

I was at my worst in 2010 when I was restricting my diet and exercising off all the calories I did take in, only to pile any weight back on with secret and painfully huge binges which probably happened weekly.

To be honest, I had to tell myself to let go of the unrealistic goal weight I was chasing. I'm 2 stone heavier now than I was then but still have a healthy bmi. I know I looked better in some ways, but it was because of the exercise I was doing - I was toned! My ideal now has shifted to a toned healthy body rather the skin and bones I was before. I had to accept that I'm not 6 foot tall and never will be!

As others have said, the key is trying your absolute best to not restrict any foods, and if you eat certain 'bad' foods to not beat yourself up. If it is something that you would be ashamed to eat in front of someone else, question why you are eating it. I binged as a crutch, out of boredom or as a punishment - 'you're fat and you might as well be fatter' type mentality. Finding other ways of combatting those emotions really helped me.

Another really beneficial technique was that I began to bake my own treats, and to use healthier substitutions, it became a hobby and I felt better about having a slice of cake knowing what had gone into it. Check out some blogs like Deliciously Ella or Oh She Glows for fab recipes.

Best of luck, and believe in yourself. At my rock bottom I thought I was doomed to live this way forever but I've been binge free for a year now and so much happier as a result

Just some recommended resources/reading to look at

Overcoming Binge Eating by Dr G Fairburn

Nourishing Wisdom by Marc David

Beyond Chocolate

Isabel Foxen Duke's website

The Institute For The Psychology of Eating facebook page.

Eating in the Light of The Moon by Anita Johnston

I often find after having my lunchtime juice , back on it today after a three week break away, that I'm really hungry and really want chocolate.

Someone else mentioned cravings after juicing.

A typical days menu is

B...2 organic egg omelette with onion fried in little coconut oil

L...green juice mainly with some carrot and apple

D..protein, veg and some rice or sweet potato

I don't eat wheat.

Weight should have fallen off me but hasn't

Exercise is minimal.