I will NEVER diet or follow nutritional advice again

[holmessweetholmes]

I thought I was pretty clued up on healthy eating and on why certain foods were good or bad. Then I read 'In Defence of Food' by Michael Pollan. It is astonishing to read about how utterly clueless, completely untrue, or often deliberately misleading, official nutritional advice is. And incredible how simple it is to eat healthily. Anyone who has ever dieted/low carbed/low anythinged should read this book.

Agree with poster, I downloaded this book when I read your post, so fed up dieting and kidding myself! I've been on a diet for years, and best weight loss I had was when I concentrated on eating actual food, so your post really caught my attention. I've devoured the book and it's been a real eye opener. Thanks for this!!

Mominatrix, I subscribe to that view 100%

I remember feeling irritated with school when they told the DC that pizza is bad. Youngest, impressionable Ds had wobbly lip, asking me why I give him food that is bad.

I looked at my lovely homemade pizza and felt something akin to rage. I said: you can tell the teacher that there is nothing wrong with nice home made food!

Not all pizza is created equal.

This whole pizza is evil stance annoys me.

Mominatrix, how do you feel about supplements and vitamins? And 5-a-day?

I don't believe in vitamin pills really. If you eat normal food and a good variety, that should be enoug. I hate vitamin sprayed cereal that makes it "healthy".

I don't even believe in 5 a day. I think fruit and veg are delicious, but no need to tick them off on a list.

The dc eat a balance, and they used to eat eggs as the littlest one had what I had. But now they've moved on to shreddies.

None of that bothers me, they see me eat loads of vegetables and healthy stuff I'm fine with that.

I don't really get the you must be so deprived stuff, good food tastes fantastic and far better than other stuff but hey ho.

Although I am happy to talk about how much sugar is in stuff you don't think it's in and that it's best not to overload on it.

Yes I'd so much rather have something properly sugary as an occasional treat - something indulgent and homemade - than eat all that hidden sugar which I don't appreciate!
Interestingly, I already feel lighter and also more chilled out in general. It is a weight off my mind not to be fretting about calories/carbs/fat etc.
BravePotato - homemade pizza is fab. How dare they!

Missushb - yay! Glad you liked it!

Anyone who feels like some more general chat about eating this way, pop over to the EatBetterers thread (linked earlier on this one).

Totally agree about pizza! It's bread, tomato sauce (often vaunted as one of the healthiest things you can possibly eat), cheese and then whatever veg or meat you put on top. Unless it's deep fried it's no different from a healthy sandwich or spag bol, content-wise.

I think a) some ill-informed "nutrition" opinion-formers think that if it's junk it's bad and junk includes anything you can get at a takeaway, therefore pizza = bad.

and b) there is a US-influenced culture of making pizzas as fat-loaded and huge as possible, so eating a whole stuffed-crust deep-pan meat feast whatever will give you more calories than you need in a day.

But why can't kids have this explained to them instead of "pizza = bad"? It's so stupid and unhelpful.

Even worse, positively dangerous in some cases, is the "fat = bad" message to kids.

after all the healthy eating indoctrination (pizza is bad! sugar free squash is good! Cucumber is a healthy snack! (whilst not unhealthy, it does not exactly deliver many nutrients I don't think, and hardly and calories and kids NEED calories) and all that bollocks), my 9 yr old has ended up with a hang up about his weight and his perceived chubbiness.

He puts himself down as being "fat" and "chubby" and "slow and heavy"

He weighs 35 kg, at a height of 1.48cm. So he is slap bang in the middle of a healthy BMI.

It infuriates me, who thinks this fosters a healthy approach to eating in children?

He is now torn when presented with (home made) cake, as it is a "bad" food.

He is also obsessed with 5 a day.

It is taking me a fair bit of time and effort to undo all this government propaganda. Surely it is well intentioned, but not effective IMO.

BravePotato whilst I agree with you and take the same approach, there are so many people who are totally clueless. They need a five-a-day message. Its so easy to get through the day without eating any fresh (or frozen which is also good) fruit and veg yet still thinking you're eating ok.

really?

But nice fruit is a treat! Strawberries, mangoes, melon.

Nicer than most puddings, no?

Do people really not even like fruit?

I find it so hard to believe

You'd be surprised BravePotato.
you could eat cereal for breakfast ( a supposedly healthy one), a chicken sandwich and yoghurt for lunch, a calorie counted ready meal or pasta and ready made sauce for dinner. A cereal bar for a snack.
No one would blame someone for thinking they were healthy eating all that because of the messages we get.

If you think about the statement that we should all avoid processed food, eat plenty of fruit and veg and cut out refined carbs, we think 'Yes, I know that'. So why do we pour millions into the diet industry?

Because sugar is extremely addictive and yet many people do not see themselves as addicts in the way that they would if they were unable to go without alcohol or drugs. So if a diet promises you the holy grail of eating the processed shit you crave and being thin then that is a far more attractive proposition than cutting out the crap and eating mainly plants.

I agree, ThePowerofMe. People need a minimal amount of f the right advice! Too much (often contradictory) advice is worse than none at all. I'm wondering how we could best sum up some good advice as briefly as possible... preferably without any reference to specific nutrients...

It's probably easier to say what one should eat rather than what one shouldn't. Eat unprocessed meat, fish and eggs, nuts, plus unsweetened dairy produce. Plenty of fresh veg and fruit. Bread with the fewest ingredients possible. Whole grains. A bit of honey maybe. And homemade puddings as an occasional treat. Drink mostly water.

Does that sum it up pretty well? Seems a lot better than saying don't eat this, don't eat that. Or telling people to cut down on fat or carbs or whatever.

Oh btw I've just bought Michael Pollan's book about cooking. It's interesting so far...

Holmes that's a good summary but what if you eat mostly frozen meals or pasta with jar sauces? A message like that could be really daunting.

You're basically telling people to cook. So many people don't know how to. I remember talking to someone once and they were impressed that their sister and her dh had learnt to cook. He actually said 'They take home cooking to a different level. They even make their own pasta sauce!' (Good for the sister and dh if that's how they were brought up to think!).

Lots of people think its hard and those who are used to years of shoving something in an oven, it could be too difficult. People need to learn how to cook and realise its easy. They also need to know that they don't have to do it 100% of the time, just mostly and that there are quick, simple dishes that require minimal effort.

Again, a jar of pasta sauce could be OK, if it's tomato-based it will be giving you some healthy veg - tomato (cooked is better than raw with tomatoes, nutrient-wise), onion and possibly other veg.

Or, if it's just cream/cheese-based, no veg.

Fresh fruit and veg are obviously better in many ways but if someone is having pasta with a jar of sauce they can still make some choices that are better than others, rather than having to write off the whole idea.

Things like chucking a few frozen peas into what you'e cooking, having pasta and sauce but adding a handful of salad on the side, adding several large slices of cucumber into your chicken sandwich, are always of increasing unprocessed, real fruit and veg intake without having to be good at cooking or spend lots of time.

I think it would help to educate people about this kind of option too, because what you don't want is people thinking "I can't be arsed/don't have time to cook/learn to cook so I might as well give up".

IMO food/cooking lessons at school should be about this. How to obtain/prepare the right food quickly, easily and cheaply without a big faff.

That's where the five-a-day message becomes helpful.

It does help to have a family / cultural link to food from the generations ago. I remember learning to cook French food due to my dgm.

It's harder in the UK as there aren't as many strong connections, well other than with Tesco or Sainsbury's etc which is very strong.

And the hold over this is lessening in other countries anyway.

This is a good article:
www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Yes it's fab, Miggsie - it is an excerpt from the book I started this thread about! You're right about the cultural connection, Marsha. In a way we are also sort of victims of having too much choice and availability of food. It would have been so much simpler to stick to a healthy, traditional diet when that was all that was on offer! My mother didn't teach me to cook really, but I am trying to get my dc into it at an early age.

This all sounds really good to me. I struggle to know what is "right". Would anyone mind giving me an idea of what they might eat in a typical day?

So I might have -

b- porridge, grated half apple. (sometimes syrup!)
sn - cheese on a cracker
lunch - soup and a roll or cheese toastie and a bit of tomato and cucumber
sn - either peanut butter on toast/ slice of cake/ something with the kids. dinner - fish/chips/salad or curry/rice or chicken, veg potatoes.
Greek yog and berries/ pancakes and ice cream.

I'm trying to cut out the binging on crisps... cheese and crackers... random slices of toast.

Am I on the right lines? Any suggestions? Thanks :)

Breakfast - one or a combination of:
muesli or weetabix with milk, toast with butter and a bit of jam or honey, full fat plain yoghurt and fresh fruit, or sometimes a ready-made fruit yoghurt.
yoghurt probiotic drink thing
espresso

Snack - almonds, cracker with butter, a carrot, maybe a flapjack or scone if out at a cafe

Cup of tea

Lunch (today's) - salad with mixed leaves, stilton with apricots, beetroot, avocado and home-made full fat olive oil dressing.
fizzy water (because I like it more than normal water)
espresso sometimes with a bit of chocolate

Snack if needed – same as a.m.

Tea - Last night's - plain boiled rice, home-made fish curry made of jar of tomatoes, courgettes, frozen fish, spices and plain yoghurt.
Alcohol free lager

Glass of white wine later

It can be a bit less veg-dominated at the weekend e.g. might have brunch out and have a fried breakfast, or make pancakes at home.

Re the snacks, I will still have crisps or a muffin or something occasionally, but I keep almonds, carrots, white cabbage and avocados around and have them as a snack when possible. In summer I buy bags of pea pods, a handful of them are a good snack. I also save leftover veg from meals, eg roasted veg, potatoes, mange tout and keep them in the fridge to nibble on.

Today I've had crumpet with marmite, watermelon, cheese, tomato and cucumber sandwich, grapes, and lentils with rice and salad for dinner. I think it's not too bad. Maybe a bit carby but I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment so anything decent is a good result!

Beatrice I think you're definitely in the right track!

Sounds generally good, Beatrice. I might avoid having the chips/pancake/ice cream/cake on your list too often and certainly not all on the same day, particularly if they are bought ones which are full of additives etc.

I am not going to deny myself puddings and treats but try to have them infrequently and make them myself. I figure that if I have to make them myself, a) they will be nicer, b) I'll know what is in them and c) the effort involved will prevent me having them too often!

Today I bought some lovely organic dark chocolate though - nice to have a square when I feel the need for something sweet. I can't buy milk chocolate as I just can't leave it alone once I have a bite!