When shall we three meet again? The not quite NT, not quite weightloss thread ......

[moosemama]

We were full up ladies, so we finally have our very own weightloss-ish thread!

11.4 is just in the healthy BMI range for me as I am 5' 7", but I'd be happier if I was a bit more in the middle of the healthy range.

I agree with the whole winter/mood thing affecting the ability to make constant healthy food choices. I did ok up until Christmas last year, but only because I was feeling so good having lost all that weight and been working out regularly.

I usually struggle through the winter, gain weight, then start walking and eating more healthy from April onwards and lose steadily across the summer - this year has been bonkers with all the yoyoing.

I definitely found it easier during the recent spell of hot weather. My appetite reduced and I was happy to eat salad for every meal. Unfortunately I don't do so well in the heat health-wise these days, so with that and my shonky, ex-festival knee there was no chance of doing any exercise.

The weight I was just before starting to diet last year was the highest I have ever been and no matter what, I am never going back there.

Good luck with your new job madwoman.

Ah, the wooden leg. Just leave off the rum.

Busy day today, so will pop by tomorrow. X

at rum. Funnily enough, my daughter was on a climbing frame this afternoon that she claimed as her 'ship' and she was the 'captain pirate'. I asked her if she had any rum, as it might warm my tummy up and she promptly fed me some, much to the amusement of some of the other parents. Mind you all her "avast me hearties" and "ahoy there" yells, with accompanying arm movements did add to the overall effect.

We have been to Conkers today. It used to be quite good, but these days is more than a little tired. I reckon 85% of the interactive displays in the discovery centre didn't work. The dcs didn't mind though, they mainly wanted to go on the various play areas.

I was however appalled to see parents letting their children chase and pick up ducklings! I was sitting in a cafe waiting for dh and the dcs, who were on the indoor play equipment, when I saw several parents outside by the lake encouraging their children to pick up tiny ducklings that had strayed there to pick up breadcrumbs. I was livid. When dh arrived I started telling him about it and one of the staff overheard it's one of his pet peeves. He said they get much worse as well - I didn't dare ask. I had a bit of a chat with him about why people bother bringing their children to a place designed to teach them about wildlife and ecosystems etc if they have absolutely no intention of teaching them to have respect for said wildlife. I think he was pleased to have met a parent who actually considered this fact and didn't treat the wildlife as 'paid-for' toys and entertainment.

I honestly despair of the behaviour of many/most of the families I have seen today - but at least it reminds me how well behaved my gang are. I tend to forget that sometimes until faced with how badly some other children behave.

Hope everyone else has had a good day.

that's useful to know about conkers, Moose, I have been toying with using Tesco vouchers to go there. Shocking behaviour by the duck chasing parents. I was quite today, we were also somewhere with wildlife and a parent didn't stop their child from picking a bamboo shoot.

How was first day at work, Madwoman? I remember my first days after 5.5 years out, (apart from the boredom of induction) I was v nervous.

I think Conkers was probably great when it was new and well funded TLP. We went there years ago and thought we wouldn't go back as it was run down. Ds1 has been nagging us to go again ever since and I read that they had a couple of new exhibits, so assumed they must be better funded now - wrong.

It cost us just under £32 for the five of us and to be honest, we could have gone to a local country park and done just about everything we did today for no more than the cost of parking. That said, the dcs have all said what a great day they've had, so maybe it is worth it if it makes them happy?

If you are able to get to that general area, I would highly recommend Clumber Park though. It's just over a fiver to park and that's it in terms of cost, unless you want to hire bicycles or camp. We are going there for my birthday in a couple of weeks time. Not decided whether to camp or not yet, but weather permitting, will be meeting up with a couple of friends and their families for a day in the country, picnic and BBQ. They have a wildlife discovery centre there as well, although it has been opened since the last time we went, so I don't know how good it is.

That's it for days out for us this week. We were supposed to be going out with my Mum, Dsis and her ds on Thursday, but as usual a family ruck has occurred meaning we won't now be going. Annoyingly this has very little to do with us, but yet again it's my dcs who are the casualties.

Avast, me hearties!

It wasn't my first day. I did two training sessions last week, and it was day 3 of this week's shifts, so the last one until Sunday. First shift that finished at 9pm though, so I was a bit fretty about going to boot camp and then doing an 8 hour shift with odd mealtimes, so skipped class yesterday morning.

And yurk at family ruck, moose. Fixable, or no? Dh's sis didn't speak to her mum for 3 years, which was awful. We alternated between patching up weeping mil, and trying to work out whether sil was losing it completely. All v messy. Thankfully ok now, but truly grim at the time.

I worked in library for a bit as a student, I was a bit arrogant as I thought I was being taken on to do proper cataloguing so got the hump that I was shelving and processing. Oh the bitter irony, that it was a job I would kill for these days! Glad it's going well by the sounds of it.

In terms of pedometer - think it's only useful if you do them briskly, pure numbers doesn't make much of a difference if it's mostly strolling. Hope the psych appt goes well.

Moose -aargh to you being caught up in family rows. Hope they all see sense so you can go out this half-term. THanks for the tip re:clumber, will look it up now, we aren't that near neck of woods, but PILs are so useful to have neutral meeting territory

Glad the job is going well. Good luck with the psych appointment.

Family ruck is par for the course with that particular sister madwoman. None of us can do right for wrong with her, if we don't keep in touch we are neglecting her, if we do we are crowding her and if we offer to visit, as I had suggested this week, so that the boys can see their cousin who used to be one of their best friends, then we are just being a pita.

We've been through long periods of time when she wasn't speaking to my parents and I was asked not to tell them about her life, have helped pick up the pieces over and over when things have gone wrong in her life etc down to helping her move house several times at zero notice and even having her, three kids and their new puppy (puppy never left and is actually lurcher boy) move in with us into our tiny house when things got really bad. Unfortunately, the bottom line is that we are only wanted when we are needed, iyswim. She is very different to me and very judgey about my life and my family. She and I get on fine if we go shopping together perhaps once or twice a year, but if we see each other more often or spend any length of time together she gets stroppy and it all ends up rather nasty. I tend to bend so far over backwards with her that I'm at risk of tying myself in knots, but still can't seem to do anything right.

This time, first she didn't want us to visit, then she did but only if we met somewhere other than her flat, as it's too small (fair enough, it is) so could we go strawberry picking - ok that's fine, told the dcs we were going strawberry picking, they were pleased. Then she changed her mind, didn't want to go strawberry picking, but wanted to go somewhere else that was unsuitable for ds1 and not great for the others, being a family of veggies and it being a smallholding keen to demonstrate the cycle of life and how well their animals are treated before they end up in the farm shop freezers, no play area, no cafe and no open space to play. I then had to explain to ds1 that despite telling him we were going to do pyo on a certain day, that wasn't going to happen. Then between her and mum they managed to completely change the day and invite my neices and their dcs, which would have made 11 of us in total, but only two cars. All without so much as mentioning it to me, with the usual assumption that I would just go along with whatever they wanted - which by then was so far removed from us just popping over for coffee while the boys played in dnephew's room that for once I put my foot down and said no.

Of course it was me saying no that caused the ruck - not everyone else running around like headless chickens, changing the arrangements every five minutes without asking what I thought and then inviting extra people to make the whole thing massive and unworkable.

Basically, it's the first time in, well ever actually, that I have said no rather than just put up with things for the sake of going along with what they want so as not to upset anyone. Obviously this cannot be tolerated!

I am not in a good place at the moment mentally and frankly I don't need it. Mum accidentally mentioned that this morning that she is still going, after telling me that dsis said to forget the whole thing. To be honest, I couldn't give a fig, I don't need the extra stress in my life, especially when all I did was suggest we popped over for coffee.

Sorry to be so ranty - not a good day in the Moose household today. Things are getting on top of me a bit and my two day trips have really taken it out of me.

Cross posted TPL. I hear ya on the neutral meeting territory!

crossposted. Your sister does sound like immensely hard work, I imagine there is even more backstory re:other family members letting her get away with this. Carry on sticking to your guns,it's not you that's making the flaky decisions here!

Thanks TLP.

Yep lots more backstory - all very convoluted and boring.

It's odd really, as I was always thought of as the difficult one as a child, while my sister kept her head down. It's been a total role reversal since we've been adults though, I tend to think life is too short for all the sniping and falling out, so try to keep the peace, often at my own and/or my family's expense.

Ds1 has just put dd's ear defenders on so that he can read without falling out with his siblings. Nice to see him coming up with strategies instead of just losing his temper.

I just told him about noise-cancelling headphones and he's now asking me to buy him a pair. Am seriously tempted, it would stop an awful lot of fights and meltdowns around here.

Oo, well done ds1! That's great!

Ugh on family hysteria. Let them get on with it and lie low. You don't need it, and tbh it won't ease the situation trying to appease them, so no point bothering.

New psych seems v nice. However, I picked Ds up front school and brought him home just in time for the appointment, to find the psych walking up the drive and the biggest steaming pile of dog turd you have ever seen on my kitchen floor...

I'm guessing that the night before you have a new psych visiting the house isn't a good time to switch to a high fibre dog food. Black dog is now in disgrace.

Psych managed to contain herself.

Dear lord, I did not know where to put myself. Heaven only knows how she'll write that one up...

Anyways, she's back on Monday. Except Ds now tells me he has a school trip on Monday. So I may need to reschedule. I think she's on his wavelength. Except she did make a huuuuuuge faux pas when she was talking about 'things you are afraid of' - apparently her 4yo is scared of going to the toilet by herself at night. Until she started talking, she had obviously forgotten that the reason she is seeing 10yo ds is for continence issues, so bringing up a fully continent 4yo who just wants the light on might not have been too smart....

Interestingly, Ds may have some issues about dd2 and the impact it has on him, which I thought he was cool about... Hmmmmmmmmm. Something to ponder, anyway. It just came up a bit in the 'tell me about your sisters' thing. He seems to think her issues stop him from doing stuff - long hikes, bike rides and whatnot. Which is kinda true, but I hadn't known that was how he felt. He also thinks she uses her disability as an excuse for being slow. No idea how to unpick that.

Oh dear they always pick the worst possible moment don't they! Don't fret, I'm sure the psych knows you didn't arrange it especially for her.

at her choice of fear topic to discuss with ds though. I guess it shows even psychs are human (although I know that really, given that my mum is actually a psych).

Difficult call with his feelings about dd. We have similar problems with the way ds2 feels about ds1 and it's a tough one to sort out, because neither one has greater right and obviously ds1 can't change his disability to suit ds2. We are now getting it a little the other way as well, as ds1 regularly objects to ds screaming in pain with his joints and cramps and is adamant that he hams it up. He also gets cross when ds2 is too tired to play anything after school. Of course the exhaustion comes from the hypermobility - but ds1 absolutely refuses to believe that.

I have just had some long talks with them both on acceptance and understanding peoples' strengths and limitations and appreciating people for who they are and what then can do. In an odd way it helps that they both have a dx, as it means I can clearly relate it all to either one's experience and perspective.

My news this evening is that I have now managed to fall out with my mum all on my own. This time via text and about dniece. Dniece has brittle asthma - and smokes. She keeps collapsing and being admitted to hospital, but refuses to give up. Mum thinks she is the only person dn has on her side and therefore fights her corner furiously. Unfortunately, I was not in the mood for playing along today. Fgs, dniece has a son who is 6 months younger than dd, and a restraining order against his father (who is in fact very scary and dangerous - yet still entitled to supervised contact). This means that should anything happen to her, he is in the running to get custody and to me that alone is enough reason for giving up smoking, let alone the fact that she could leave the poor little boy without a mother. It's all so sad and such a mess, but my mum won't hear a word said against her and I'm afraid I wasn't in the mood for tiptoeing around the subject this afternoon. I love my niece dearly, but after visiting her in hospital already this winter and hearing all about how they were unable to control the problem and nearly lost her several times, I simply cannot condone her smoking, even if mum says it's not her fault and smoking is all she has for herself! Everyone has told her, mum has told her, dsis has told her, I've told her, her father's told her and the docs have seriously told her, but she just says giving up is too hard and carries right on. It's beyond reckless and there is a little child involved fgs.

Ahem - sorry, rant number 2 over and done with.

Poor dh got through the front door after work this evening and I went straight to bed. Have just got up again after a very odd restless nap.

Think I'd best write today off as a bad 'un and start again tomorrow.

Oh bless you.

And there is nothing less satisfying than a restless nap when you finally give up and go to bed. Horrible.

Today is definitely over in the moose house. Fingers crossed tomorrow will bring a brighter outlook x

well sounds like an ahem productive morning all around, Madwoman, both for the doggie and for the psych session. Hopefully the psych can do some unpicking herself, maybe if you talk separately to her about DD2's condition and effects on day to day life.

sorry there has been more family drama, Moose.

Goodness only knows what is in that food. He produced even more when I took him out after she left!

Why are you giving the high fibre dog food madwoman? Is it kibble or tinned? All kibble is already packed full of bulkers and fillers. Dogs don't need any form of grain in their diet whatsoever, in fact it's actually bad for them. Despite this, all but the mega-bucks dog food are full of bulk grain fillers that act as fibre - hence horrible big smelly stools.

Dogs who are on natural diets eat only raw meaty bones, meat, offal and some veg. They hardly pass anything at all, it's all nice and compact and doesn't smell - so much easier.

My dogs were all on a natural diet until we moved here. In Lancashire all the butchers were willing to give us great big bags of raw meaty bones to feed them and we supplemented with the odd chicken wing, egg, bit of offal and some ground veg. It cost us next to nothing to feed three dogs and they were all super healthy. When we moved here, all the local butchers said they weren't allowed to give us the bones due to health and safety. They wouldn't sell them to us either. Actually the butcher in the village fancies himself as a top end, posh toff deli type thing, despite actually being a bog standard butcher and told us that his products wouldn't be suitable for dogs as they are too 'high end', as a result he wouldn't even sell us chicken wings in bulk.

So, mine are on kibble now, although not through choice and I have never known any of my dogs to shed or smell as much, let alone need cleaning up after so often and don't get me started on the state of their teeth. When they were on a raw food diet we never had to clean their teeth. Our old girl still has the teeth of a much younger dog as a result, whereas lurcher boy, who has only ever eaten kibble has dreadful teeth at the age of 6 and is already heading for dental work as a result. That's with one of the most expensive brands on the market as well - the kibble is sprayed with flavourings, sugars and vitamin mix to replace all the flavour and nutrition that the extrusion process removes. This sticks to their teeth and causes tooth decay, whereas the action of eating raw bones actually cleans their teeth for them. Dogs on a natural diet have beautiful white teeth and no bad breath.

Tinned food is no better unfortunately, just the same super heated, extruded pap with added water.

Dog food manufacture is a huge con and the vets are usually complicit. They get one module on nutrition when studying and it's facilitated by one of the biggest dog food manufacturers. They then leave uni believing all the spin that raw bones are dangerous for dogs to eat (tell that to a wolf) and the best diet for pet dogs is manufactured kibble.

Sorry, went off on one a bit there, but it's one of my biggest canine related bugbears. I studied canine nutrition when I was doing my dog courses and carry around a huge amount of guilt that, despite knowing better, my dogs are still fed commercial crap. We looked into having meaty stuff delivered, but as we have nowhere for a dog food freezer at this house it was a no go (we had a big chest freezer for the dogs' food in the garage at our old house).

Mm, this was a s a result of the vet visit the other day, where we were told black dog is also overweight and needs to lose about 4kg. He looks dead scrawny next to fat brown dog, but apparently is still quite considerably overweight. The vet recommended this stuff as being Labradors they need to consume vast quantities to feel full, otherwise will eat whatever they can get their mouths on... So it is a short lived deliberate attempt to get them to feel full, with less actual calorific value!! So this is a kibble that is high fibre deliberately, and supposed to aid weight loss in big stupid dogs that will eat their own body weight in whatever, given the chance...

Of course, given that, it is entirely rational that there would be more waste... I just hadn't really thought that through until confronted with the vast steaming pile of it on the kitchen!

Ah well, hopefully a couple of months and they will both be lean mean running machines...

Hmm, now from what I learned, if they had a higher quality diet that met their nutritional needs they would be less likely to feel hungry, even if they are labradors. The more fillers, the less actual nutrition and the dogs' digestive systems will pick that up, so I would be surprised if they do feel less hungry, especially as higher fibre means faster transit and more waste, so they'll probably, er, dispose of the contents of their stomachs faster and then be hungry again.

If you apply the whole low-carb idea then the same rules apply as they do for humans - good quality/higher protein = better satiety and faster weightloss - vs - higher simple carbs (fibre) = blood sugar peaks and troughs and food cravings, not to mention fat storage.

I know labs have a bit of a rep for eating themselves into obesity, but personally I have met a fair few labs, fed on a natural diet that are super fit and lithe, you can't have a fat working lab and nearly all working labs that I've ever met have been on a natural diet.

I'm not saying you shouldn't give it a go, just that I personally have a deep seated distrust of vets, particularly when it comes to matters of nutrition. With one or two very rare exceptions, I tend trust them about as much as I trust Tory governments and LEA's to give you some idea.

If you ever get the chance and are interested, Billinghurst's book Give Your Dog a Bone is a fascinating vet busting read.

Oh Blimey. That does make sense. I think I might studiously ignore it for a month and see what happens. I'm not sure I've got the time or the energy to think about the dogs' diet as well as ds's and mine!

It does make sense... I will have a look at the book later and see what dh thinks. I wasn't even at the appt tbh, dh took him, and also bought the food. I don't even know what it is, as he emptied it into the storage bin and threw the sack away. He just said high fibre... Will ask him tonight.

Boot camp this morning was v odd. I thought I was going to pass out after the first ten minutes, felt really pulse racey and light headed. Stayed on the bike for a set instead of doing the floor work and talked myself down (was considering leaving as I didn't want to collapse in the class!) and in hindsight, I think it was a bog standard panic attack. Bizarre. The rest of the class was ok, hard, but ok, and I took it easy-ish. (think I've strained my fecking elbow again though, will have to ice it and see)

So, I'm going to take it pretty slowly today and make sure I eat and drink a bit more. Have been pretty heavily low carbing for a few days so not sure if that had an effect, either. And not been putting it in mfp... Might have to have a look and see if I can get a clue.

We have had two days of rainstorms, virtually unheard of in this neck of the woods, with paths being washed out, and a huge 'save the railway line' emergency project to keep digging a fecking big trench so that the swollen creek doesn't wash the line away. V impressive. The entire town has been enthralled by the weather and there has been a steady crowd of people standing on the road bridges over the creek gazing at the torrents of water. V funny. Of course, all the rain is making the snowpack melt as well, so it's really in full flow with flooding in the valley. It has finally stopped now, but two days of thunder and lightning was quite impressive!

Well all that water - I'm going to have a soak in the bath and get rid of the boot camp clamminess! Lovely!

it makes sense, Moose, as with the raw food type diet, it would be much more textured/chewier and satisfying than kibble, I guess. I know there's similar dodginess re:rabbit food (recently got a rabbit). The pet shops push the pellets more than they ought, and the muesli they sell seems to be v bad for their teeth. But then there isn't enough profit in grass and hay, is there

that sounds v scary, all the storms etc, we have more bogstandard heavy rain back in the UK, they are finally considering lifting the hosepipe bans

Suspect it may be the low carb that triggered your bootcamp episode, you can feel a bit shaky while body adjusts etc.

Doesn't raw food work out monstrously expensive?