Why are so many people anti WLI

[Mumble12]

I just don’t understand it!

Mounjaro has literally changed my life overnight. It’s dealt with things that I didn’t even know were fixable. Why are so many people (presumably those that haven’t tried them and really have no intention to) so dead against it.

Do people misunderstand how it works? So many people perceive it as cheating…but I can’t fathom the logic - even if it was cheating…so what?! Why do they want people to be miserable and struggle with obesity?

The bottom line is that they don’t think obesity is a disease

they’re the same people who don’t think alcohol and drug addiction are diseases

People are too stupid to understand that everyone’s body is different, that every pain threshold is different.

they’re the same people who go on birth threads and say ‘well a third degree tear was fine for me with paracetamol’ while pretending not to understand how someone else with their ENTIRELY FUCKING DIFFERENT PAIN THRESHOLD couldn’t handle it. And then they’re judgemental about their ‘birth traumas’ even if they have PTSC because you know…. Paracetamol.

Zero understanding, zero empathy.

this all applies to obesity. Zero understanding that their experience of hunger is completely different to someone else’s experience of hunger. Again, saying stuff like ‘I have to work hard at my weight and ignore the hunger’ as if that’s the SAME as other people’s complete starving hunger that sure they can fight off for an hour but not every fucking day of their fucking life.

because again people are different. They literally have different levels of hormones that makes one person hungrier than the next.

So it’s all judgement and thinking everyone’s the same.

I tried cocaine 30 years ago with a friend. Next day didn’t even think about it, would never have crossed my mind to do it again. For three days my friend was desperate to do it again.

guess what, people are fucking different. I am no more worthy of being celebrated for not ‘turning to drugs’ than she should be criticised for wanting them. Different bodies.

I dont think Im against them.

What I am against is the idea that as a tax payer, the government has plans on spending my taxes on paying for them for the masses

Ive spent a lot of my adult life obese

I have what I now know as food noise constantly

Yet I deal with it. I spend the day thinking about and wanting food, yet I know I cant give in to my cravings if I want to keep to a healthy weight

Ive spent the best part of 18 months losing the 2+ stone I needed to lose to get to a healthy BMI, and Ive battles every day for the past 18th months to keep it off

So I kid myself that I love and adore veggies, that an air fried roastie spritzed with a tiny amount of olive oil is as good as roasties cooked in goose fat, that chicken skin is the devils spawn and that biscuits and cakes are for birthdays and high days only

So whilst Im not against them per say , I dont want them to be seen as an easy route at the tax payers expense

I do understand the argument that obesity is costing the nation a fortune, but at the same time, smoking was costing more. Smokers were taxed out of being able to afford to smoke ( ex smoker now ). Sure we had NHS funded quit programs ( same as obese people get NHS funded diet programs ) , but for the vapes - the one single treatment that's worked for the majority of constantly repeating quitters - we pay , we fund it ourselves

I dont think they should be funded by the tax payer but I do accept they are here to stay and I do hope that those do who loose on them also learn restraint to keep the weight off and they dont keep on yo-yoing

It IS cheating! However so what? Being obese is unhealthy. So of WLI helps some people make better food choices without having to feel deprived and struggle, and they can safely take WLI - why not?

Has she lost weight? A friend of mine was complaining at slow weight loss but she ate loads more than I did when we went out one evening, and wanted to get the bus for short journeys that were easily walkable. I thought: it can't work if you don't eat less and exercise.

I hate the argument that it's 'cheating'. WTF should it be hard? My concern is that it is still an unknown quantity, touted as a wonder drug but the long term effects are not yet known. Some people aren't eating enough on it, some people are losing muscle. I think we need to know more before making it so widespread. But I am happy for (and a bit jealous of) people who it works for.

Yes and because I don’t know her really well I don’t want to say too much. I wouldn’t have even mentioned weight except that she told me about intermittent fasting and that got us talking.

i think that being obese means I do have an eating disorder really. I’m not thinking that losing weight will make me anorexic.

I just found her instantly against the injections which is a shame really. That’s why I mentioned the nhs because people in a dangerously obese group might do better with a gp supporting them.

i didn’t even have to speak to a pharmacist when I ordered my injections. They got in touch with my gp and that was enough evidence for them. With my health issues I need it

I’m anti covid vaccine, anti transitioning drugs, and anti weight loss drugs. I’m pretty anti pharmaceutical drugs.

@suki1964 it’s a bit unkind to resent other people being able to improve their health just because you were able to do so without needing any assistance to do so. Particularly if those people are severely obese and suffering from multiple health conditions. You don’t want things to be “easy” for them because they don’t deserve it? Seems a bit lacking in empathy.

The rollout of Mounjaro via the NHS which is supposed to start from the end of this month will initially only be for people with a BMI greater than 40 and with at least 4 weight related health issues, specific ones that are officially diagnosed. So they are not going to be given out to anyone who wants them.

Smokers can get Varenicline on the NHS if they want support to quit smoking.

Are they cheating? They are certainly "cheating" themselves of the pleasure of enjoying food.

@user1471453601 For me, with a BMI over 40 and a dysfunctional view of food caused by years of dieting, SW, WW and disordered eating, I can assure you that there was no pleasure. The only thing I felt about food was guilt, disgust and shame.

What will happen when you personally require pharmaceutical drugs then? Will you magically come around to them or will you treat your cancer or meningitis with fruits and vitamins?

Im not being unkind at all

I dont resent people taking WLI at all, and I have said on numerous threads, if I had been one BMI point higher, I would have paid myself

You saying smokers get Varenicline on the NHS - its hard to get, and you get one course of 12 weeks , start smoking again after - tough

So what happens IF WLI injections are given on the NHS? You get 3 months? Put the weight back on again and then what?

Take WLI,I would have tbh, but I dont want the NHS to be funding them , that was my argument on my post

I have every sympathy for people ( myself included ) who fight every fecking minute of every fecking day to curb their eating. Did you not read the bit where I kid myself I love this healthy eating I FORCE myself to do every ruddy day?

I cook for a living, Im assailed all the time with smells of food, yet I darent even taste a sauce because it will trigger me

I do encourage other people to get into healthy habits, they do become habits ( dont mean to say enjoyable ones ) because it really is the only way to control the weight when you have no off switch.

I can not have chocolate, biscuits, crisps, bread cake in the house, because you know what, I wake in the morning and find the debris of me getting up in the early hours, making sandwiches and scoffing cake , I have to tell my husband to hide the Toblerone bar he got for fathers day, he has to eat it in the garage when Im not around

Dont dare tell me I have no empathy

This is such an interesting thread.

Is it cheating?

In a way, I think it is (on Wk1D7, injecting again later on today, so if its cheating, I'm a cheater!). For me, it's a bit the difference between walking up a mountain or taking a cable car. You get to the top of the mountain either way.

Here's a scenario.... people are invited to an "event" (school fete/familyparty/whatever), and are asked to bring a cake (sorry if that's triggering!!!)
Person 1 cooks from scratch, mixes every ingredient by hand
Person 2 does same, but uses a maginixer/kenwood thing to mix
Person 3 buys a packet cake mix
Person 4 picks up a cake in Tesco (Insert your supermarket of choice)

Who is "cheating"?

Does it matter if the cakes are all enjoyed?

Btw, forgot to clock the name, but fucking loved that bingo card. Thank you x

ETA, I looked it up, and it was @HansHolbein. Brilliant!

They're helping big pharma make even more profit while convincing themselves they have a crippling disorder that stops them from being normal, just like the recent surge in people being medicated for "ADHD". They refuse to see the trap they're being led into with "maintenance" plans suddenly being the new thing after all of the discussion at first was about getting to a healthy weight and learning how to stay there.

I have been fighting my weight every day and every hour - often temporarily successfully, but it has been a full time effort - since I was about 11 or so. I'm thrilled big pharma now has something for me that helps. They can have my money. My money, why would it bother other people if I spend it on something that allows me to be slimmer and healthier?

I think one big problem with WLI (and many other diets/weight loss regimes) is that they don't tackle the underlying causes of most obesity in our society today. We are surrounded by unhealthy food, bombarded with adverts and reminders of calorie-laden rubbish, persuaded and tempted to eat and drink rubbish in order for someone to make a profit. WLI help individuals (and create more profit for somebody!) but don't solve the worsening problem of obesity for society.

The difference is in the ingredients. All the cakes may well be 'enjoyed' but some are full of UPFs and are worse nutritionally. The odd cake doesn't really matter but when the quick, easy foods are a big part of someone's daily intake, it matters a lot.

I see it as people who have no willpower cheating

I don't judge people for taking the easy route but I do worry that we don't have any long term data on its safety. You know the old saying 'if something seems to good to be true...'

i personally have zero problem BUT I do think it’s not addresaed the root cause of the issue. And it essentially gets more people addicted to a big pharmaceutical product where we don’t know the long term impacts.

It just shows you that people are slightly unhinged about other people being overweight and consider it a moral failing that they need to be punished for. Being thin has been their only way to feel superior and thinness becomes someone's idenitity.

More than two thirds of us struggle with our weight. One time I was watching a documentary about Vivian Stanshall and he really slimmed down one time, and referred to himself as "Aesthetic Vivian". 🙂That idea really took hold with me. I'm still me, this version is the sport model Vanden Plas, turbo, GTI etc, rather than the family estate car.

But then neither do any other drugs.

Do you expect paracetamol to stop society causing headaches and point out that it only takes the psin away?

This is my view. I’m not anti them and nor do I think users are cheating but I find it mildly terrifying that so many people are merrily injecting themselves with a medication that hasn’t been studied long term specifically for weight loss use. Plus the potential for developing eating disorders - getting anorexically thin on them or becoming bulimic when injections stop and weight is regained - is also a concern.

It’s the long term effects that concern me.

It’s a difficult one though as if you are morbidly obese you’re definitely going to have effects on your health anyway so in that case it’s probably worth a shot (pardon the pun) at the WLI and take the risk of the long term effects.

I can see why people do it and I’m not against it but I just have a feeling that in 20 years it’s not going to be the miracle everyone thinks it is now. I hope I’m wrong.

I’d say it’s because the majority of them aren’t very happy themselves, so need outlet for their unhappiness and they just happen to have a spare soapbox sitting in a corner not being used.

Yet I’d put money on you snatching a Drs hand off if your life needed saved due to a terrible accident. (or even just having some disease people are diagnosed with day in and day out) if at that moment you had to choose between anti pharmaceutical drugs, or living.

🙄

I'm not against them, per se, if they work for you and you're happy, more power to you. I'm genuinely pleased for you.

I am however concerned by how easy they are to get hold of, the lack of medical supervision they seem to come with and the dangerous way in which they are being used by a not insignificant number of people.

I'm concerned about the long term effects, not only of using a drug off license without proper research but of the impact of the extreme calorie restriction they trigger in users and the damage that can cause longterm.

I also find the cult-like attitude and the heavy marketing around them to be concerning. Medication with death as a potential side effects should not be marketed like a new kind of chocolate and it should definitely not come with money off vouchers and referral codes.