Bodily autonomy and other people's anger...

[FastAndFury]

I have noticed in these boards and other boards where weight loss injections are discussed, that some posters get very angry, irate or even venomous towards posters who admit to using wl injections outside of guidelines.

For example, if someone injects more or less than once a week, does the golden dose, titrates up too quickly, stays on a dose longer than recommended, uses WL drugs when they are less than 30 BMI, wants to get to a BMI below the middle of the healthy weight range etc... I could go on.

My question is why do people get so angry about these things? About these decisions other people make about their own bodies?

Surely we have bodily autonomy and can make our own decisions about our own bodies.

People will always make unwise decisions about their bodies and their health. People smoke, drink, use drugs, eat chocolate, stuff pizza, eat takeaways, over exercise, under exercise, drink coffee, consume energy drinks etc... but those are our decisions to make as adults. Many many people treat their bodies against the recommended advice and guidelines and sometimes even in ways which are against the law. Why do other people get so so angry about people taking WL injections against guidelines?

One poster expressing anger or venom at another for using a WL drug differently to how they would choose to use it, makes no sense to me.

Surely we have bodily autonomy and can make our own decisions, however unwise, about weight loss drugs and how we wish to use them?

I read it as frustration rather than anger, because some people seem weirdly casual about how they're using a prescription medication. The other day someone cited Reddit as the research they'd done into changing dosage!

It’s jealousy. Plain and simple.

Or concern that the NHS may have to pick up the pieces at the public’s expense? Using any medication outside of guidelines is dangerous and stupid. As is lying to get that medication in the first place.

FAFO and lack of personal responsibility for the results of uneducated actions that's the issue in my mind.
Many users follow the instructions on the medication and just get on with it a few however FA&FO (Fuck Around & Find Out) and then continue to do so....I believe it because they think the medication is "just a weight loss aid" or similar and not a serious medication in the same way a lot of FAFO goes on with anti-depressants, Angina medication etc. it can and does cause long term problems if you don't follow the medications instructions. Like your mum said.....if you fall out that tree and break your leg dont come running to me !

I have a live and let live attitude about everything except abuse in all its forms, I am quite short on patience for those who mess about with medication just because Janice's dog walker on reddit said it was okay too....and shes lost 300st and is fit as a fiddle and her sons a Doctor 😂

Not saying it is right or wise to get yourself in such a fizz about what other people do.

though from another perspective, choosing what you do with your body is absolutely your right. But when you post on an open forum with your ideologies rightly or wrongly you are offering that advice to others.

i suppose it’s the risks you pose to the wider population, not everybody has the information/sense however you wish to define it to make healthy choices and their risk is greater than others who make considered decisions outside of medical advice.

using Reddit as a research tool for example or of the MNer who confused mg and mls and gave themselves a huge overdose.

Bodily autonomy is all very well, but I think most people would say something if they thought a person was misusing a prescribed medication. Faffing around with strong medicines is bloody stupid. Pointing out that someone shouldn’t be doing it is performing a public service if it stops someone else copying their ridiculous and possibly damaging experimentation.

Possibly because those who are misusing WLJ are provoking tighter regulation and oversight hence making it harder for others to get the WLJ?

This is rubbish. If people wanted weight loss jabs that much, they’d get them, wouldn’t they? Why would they be jealous?

It's not sensible to mis-use medication. Yes it's your decision, but if you do silly things and then post about them on a public forum, people will tell you that you're wrong.

It's a POM, that's why. Misuse can, and does, have serious consequences. Presumably people are using WLI because they are concerned about the impact of their weight on their health. Why would they then jeopardise their health by misusing the medication?

The ones that misuse or obtain it fraudulently tend to be the ones that bleat when it goes wrong or they have side effects. It has nothing to do with autonomy, more like idiocy.

You may feel.its dangerous and stupid, but why get angry that someone else doesn't think this? If the person doesn't end up causing the NHS any problems, why be angry until and unless that actually happens? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't get angry with people that an me or eat too much chocolate because they may need to use NHS services in the future as a result, so why the anger at using GLP1s against guidelines..

The ones that misuse or obtain it fraudulently tend to be the ones that bleat when it goes wrong or they have side effects

Where is your evidence for that?

I haven’t seen any anger about this, personally. I have read a lot of venom directed towards those using WLI, by those who don’t need to. Many people hate fat people, and also hate them losing weight.

I think gently pointing out that it’s wise to consider things carefully before ignoring medical guidelines is ok, and in the spirit of support. I’ve tried, and been told that it’s a personal choice - which of course it is. No anger in either direction.

The whole ‘golden dose’ stuff is totally normalised on the boards, and that’s not helpful in my opinion. People buying syringes from Amazon, wondering how they will know what the dose actually is, keeping pens beyond expiry because it’s bound to be fine - well, let’s just say I’m a lot more risk averse when it comes to powerful drugs. I’m not angry about it, remotely - why would anyone be?

I am confused.

I'm assuming quite a few people who have been obese now or in the past, have some experience with having overeaten, or eaten the wrong things, or not done enough exercise or have taken in more calories than they've been expending. All these things place their health in jeopardy and they are more likely to use NHS resources

Yet we quite rightly wouldn't criticise and get angry with someone for stuffing in that extra pizza or binging on that whole packet of biscuits. Why? Because what seems like a choice to others is actually more complicated than that. We wouldn't say 'Frank is soo stupid for eating more calories than he expends, what a drain on NHS resources. How dare he'.

Same should apply with using wl injections against guidelines. Yes it may not be wise, but such choices are more complicated than 'mary is just being stupid' or 'frank should know better'.

Can't we just support each other and hear their reasoning? Suggest alternatives without the venom and anger.

Could it be an irrational fear that those misusing* it will cause a ban? When you’ve struggled most of your life with weight gain, tried countless ways to exercise, diet, lose the weight, put up with the side eyes from slimmer people believing you’re just lazy, have no control etc etc…you finally find something that helps you gain control and along comes Stacy doing something that potentially risks her life and puts your ability to control your weight in jeopardy.

*using it differently I guess, not necessarily misusing…

Totally agree with all of this, especially how people hate fat people but also hate when they lose weight unless they suffered sufficienly. It's like people don't think it's a real drug.

You’re kind of contradicting yourself. You are, quite rightly, pointing out that a person’s relationship with food is complex. They don’t always have control of what they eat due to malfunctioning satiety and hunger hormones. So eating more pizza/cake/whatever isn’t necessarily a conscious choice. It’s more of a drive, an uncontrollable urge. But messing about with prescription medicine is a choice. When you are given a prescribed drug, you follow the instructions. If you decide not to, that’s your choice as you say. And your risk. Probably best keep it to yourself rather than announcing it on social media as if it’s no big deal.

💯 Totally agree! I think it’s part of the awful mean girl or nanny-knows-best bossy mentality you sometimes get on MN. Unfortunately, MN seems to attract these kind of unpleasant know-alls. Often they understand things in a very limited way but that doesn’t stop them shouting their opinions at people for not doing what they think they should do.

You get it on MN general weight loss forum too. If someone takes a teaspoon of sugar with their tea a couple of furious posters will demand what the hell they think they are doing. Complete strangers will lecture them rudely about calorie intake or nutrition or tell them that they are lying, or demand they go low-carb, or whatever.

Reddit is much better for sharing information, discussion and positive outlook IMO. People can disagree about things and their experience, but you don’t get this awful snarling and condescension that you quite often get on MM weight loss threads and weight loss injection threads.

Reddit is great for sharing information. That includes their own experience, just like here. Sometimes posters do include their sources as well. Regardless it’s altogether a more grown up and genuine sharing pool. People aren’t brow beaten in the same way - and are allowed to think independently and think for themselves. I don’t know if that’s because it’s more American – based.

I think it’s jealousy that they struggle like mad to lose or keep to an acceptable weight and this is forgoing the struggle.

it’s like people moaning and saying kids don’t know they are born now. They have it easy. We like a struggle!

You must have missed the threads criticising overweight people on here so you must be new.

Search the words "vanity sizing" and "we have forgotten what slim/healthy looks like"

Yes, I think possibly this is a factor.

Why would people be jealous? Surely if they want to do it, they can.

I was just about to post the same. There are loads of threads where people talk about obese people costing the NHS money. I'm guessing the OP may not frequent AIBU much, because it's a view that is regularly expressed on MN usually in a post bemoaning WLI.

Out of curiosity OP how do you feel about people who are a normal BMI getting WLI to lose say 10 lbs?