If you don't follow latest research or guidelines wrt baby feeding (in particular weaning)

[hunkermunker]

Can I ask why?

Obviously all babies are individuals, yada yada - and guidelines are just that.

But what happens to make you disregard the up-to-date stuff?

(This is following on from a posting on another thread - but I wanted to make it a less personal, wider thread, rather than it be construed as an attack on one person - because I think the process of how we make decisions regarding our children is interesting).

Erm, Hunker and Tiktok, may I interrupt your tori bashing for a moment, admirable though it is
I have read this thread with interest as I am in the middle this, dd is 21 weeks, has been exclusively breastfed till two weeks ago, has had some mashed banana since (I know, MIL and dh desperate to have a go), and when she went from sleeping 3hrs at a time at night to 1 - 1.5 hrs I relented at the suggestion of my HV. Had HV said "its a growth spurt, give it to the end of the week" instead of "you better start on some solids then" I would not have gone down this road. She will not take a bottle/cup so I have up till now been the only one to be able to feed her, I get very tired. .
What I wanted to say is that now I have started feeding her solids, I feel that any damage has been done and is irrevocable. When people think that they have done damage to their babies, they get defensive. And because there are no instant, directly attributable negative consequences, you tend to think, well, it?s alright then. Because of the irrevocable nature of the damage caused to a leaky gut, there doesn?t seem much point in stopping, whereas advice received after you have already started doing something else is worth taking on board, e.g. if you are told not to put a baby under the duvet, you don?t do it from then on.
I honestly DID NOT KNOW that solid feeding actually caused harm until prompted into researching it after reading about it on Mumsnet. I am and intelligent, interested scientist. I read the leaflets they hand you at antenatal and baby groups. I read New Scientist. I did my thesis on children?s guts. I have what I had previously considered a highly pro- bf HV. I am astounded that the message hadn?t got through to me. But if it didn?t, why should it get through to less reading-obsessed people.
Two Qs

1. Is it worth stopping feeding now or is the damage done? 2)Can you point me in the direction of research that shows six months as opposed to 15 weeks is necessary, everything I could find on kellymom seems to be research into that?

Why pick on me? Loads of people have replied to you. Are you saying you won't have a debate? Thats sad as it suggests you aren't strong enough in your convictions to stand by them.

I'll talk about my beliefs and anyone is free to challenge them and debate why I think it is like that. If you don't want people to reply and say what they think of your answers either don't post or tell people you don't want replies or don't read them!

I've read more...

My daughter didn't have a stroke and she was born with a swallowing reflex!

Who said you were talking about weaning from milk?

Do you ever make sense?

thingamajig, if you stopped now you would minimise the effect of early weaning. It is better for baby to be getting milk rather than solids at this stage and even though you've already given some you can still stop for awhile, just because solids have been given doesn't mean there's no reason to not carry on. Nothing changes inside them because they've had solids, they're still having something filling their tummy that's not giving them anything.

(PS love your opening line!)

Thanks, Tink. Will do that.

thing, how about having a conversation with your HV about what you have learnt? This will benefit other mothers and babies.

Yes, of course you can stop now. Breastmilk is the most nourishing and appropriate food for your baby and she will not miss solids at this stage. I don't know enough about the gut and whether it heals - well, I know it does, of course, but I don't know if the effects of early solids can be mitigated by ceasing them - but in terms of good nutrition, a return to breastmilk only is a good step.

I am not clear about your research question. There is plenty of research to show 6 mths is a sensible guideline, but the 15 weeks has not been compared directly witb 6 mths as far as I know - though you will get papers which look at the adverse effects of weaning below 4 mths, or below 3 mths, and you could take a look at the Dundee cohort (in the BMJ - search weaning, and Stuart Forsyth, about 8 years ago now, I think) which showed babies weaned at 15 weeks or earlier had a significant risk of respiratory disease.

What's "hungrier baby milk"?

It's formula based on the casein proteins of cows' milk rather than the whey proteins.
It's harder to digest so the theory is it stays in the stomach longer, meaning the baby feels full for longer. It's no more nutritious than the regular stuff.

(just fleshing out my earlier thinking-out-loud post)

Going back to the OP, I really do think that the idea that the guidelines only changed to benefit the "developing world" (where sterilization is harder) is a major factor in the families I've met who weaned at 4 months. It seems to have been uncritically accepted as fact - which is why most people treat 4 months as the "actual" limit.

HVs, of course, should be the ones explaining the 6 month limit to their families - but only seem to be propagating the myth, it seems.

I just want to say thank you for this thread. I weaned DS at 5 months because he started waking at night at 4.5 months, having slept through at 3 months. I found the sleep deprivation much harder to deal with having got used to sleeping again!

We were also on a nice 4 hourly feed routine, and I just didn't know how to feed more often. (Yes, I know that sounds stupid!).

I didn't really understand the implications of weaning early. I'm really grateful for threads like this that help me understand better. I like to think that they'd help me make a better choice with any future children.

why do those of you without small babies even care? [baffled]

What an interesting question that is!

I disregarded official advice and weaned at 3-4 months. I continued to breast feed till 9 months. My feelings about it were a combination of stuff. I know enough about medical research/policy making to be aware that what studies are commisioned, what outcomes are used, what happens to the findings....well there are some epidemiological findings that are cast iron with rock solid outcomes (eg smoking cause premature death in smokers compared to non smokers, in studied populations where the only major difference was the smoking) and some that are harder to pin down, due to more complicated outcome measures and more other differences in the groups being studied, as in not the difference your trying to look into, that could in fact cause the result. And advice given to populations which willl benefit everyone if its followed is different to advice given to an individual. And for a government trying to play safe, as of course they should, sometimes its safest to play safe! Like with the alcohol thing. If they just say, all pregnant women avoid it, then it probably will reduce the amount heavy drinkers consume, although not stop it perhaps, and light drinkers fetal health certainly wont come to any harm from abstaining. So it helps the population overall. Also instinctively it seems to me that allergies would be much less when a baby is bf anyway, and that the main issue is the quality of the food you give you baby is more important the anything, ie additives etc, and also often severe allergic reactions seem to happen when you are presented with a potential allergen later in life rather than earlier, also introducing potential allergens whilst cross covering with breast milk is thought by some experts to be the key,

And my DD was hungry and everyone was having so much fun feeding her, not least DD herself, I wasnt going to poop the party on the basis of advice that blows with the wind!

I do usually follow official medical advice for sure. There is not a chance I would miss any of DDs vaccination appointments! But I had my reasons here with the food stuff. I mean, the peanut advice has changed already sine DD was born from Dont eat whild pregnant to do eat whil pregnant.

Lol at enid coming along and posting that

Why does someone who purports not to care, come along, open a thread that doesnt interest them (allegedly ), and take the time to ask why folk without small babies, like yourself enid, "care"?

Aww bless you, you've made my day

because I thought I did care

until I opened the thread and read some of it and my brain shut down with boredom

Enid, the reason I have contributed to this thread even though I don't have a small baby is because the OP is about why people wean as they do.

It isn't an advice thread for people with babies (although I am sure some people have got some benefit from it on that level), it is a discussion on why people chose to behave the way they do. Your experiences are relevant whether or not you have a small baby now or have had one in the past.

Without knowing what motivates people to behave as they do with regard to health messages you won't know the best way of getting the new research across and ensuring that as many people as possible understand why the guidelines are important and what they mean.

However, I also agree with daydreambeliever - despite being a follower of the guidelines myself, it is always in the back of my mind that guidelines do change and that they are there to guide and not lay down the law and therefore the fact that some people make different parenting choices is to be expected and isn't always a bad thing.

Haven't read all this.

I weaned DS1 at 19 weeks on the advise of my HV (had never been on mumsnet or any parenting site at that point).

My HV told me that the guidelines were more for those living in 3rd world countries with poor hygeine as at 6 months a baby would be more resistant to possible disease caused by unsterilised equipment etc.

I guess it safe to say she was talking bollock?

seriously I do feel a bit as I cannot remember what I did and would have to check my mumsnet postings to find out

Enid, who needs a baby book when you have MN?

DD1 was weaned at 4/5mths as per guideline then (and against what mum was saying). But i wished i waited (but hadn't found MN then) until she was ready because she wasn't interested but we continued and now she is a 4.6yrs a fussy eater. She loved her milk drinking 6 x 9oz bottles a day.

DD2 (8.5mths) i started very slowly at 20wks as she does not like milk and after the HV visited to try to help and spending up to an hour of her screaming and me pinning her down (one hand behind my back and me holding the other) to try to get her to drink 4oz milk which is what happened at everymeal time. She was not gaining any weight.

But she does like her food she will eat anything that she can get, so i have to get milk in to her other ways so i include something milky at each mealtime.

As to baby will sleep better when on solids i certainly do not believe DD1 never slept through the night until she was 2yrs (and yes she would still drink 6oz at night. But dd2 slept through the night since 8weeks. It just the way babies are some sleep and some don't.

Yes, connor, utter bollocks.

in response to the op, guidelines were 6 months with both my dds and i introduced solids at about 20 wks with both. i wanted to wait until 6 months but had reached personal limits w/exclusive bf. hungry babies, more bf (i.e. in bed all day every day) not an option. it was my understanding (perhaps wrong would be interested to hear) that wrt to gut development solids vs formula is all the same. i figured introducing formula would be more likely to compromise longer-term bf so went for solids. i'm not sure how the health benefits of bf over the longer term compare with those of excl-bf past 20 weeks and i doubt anyone could tell me for sure so it's a call i had to make.

in terms of them being more settled and less hungry it was successful, longer term i just have to be hopeful that it hasn't predisposed them to health problems.

to me it was one of those compromises we have to be prepared to make between the ideals we set out with and how things turn out in practice and not beat myself up over it.

tori, fwiw, the persoon who introduced me to BLw is a SALT. So I suspect she knows what she's talking about with respect to swallowing, choking, etc.

LOL at Tori-bashing - not really. Unfounded opinion-bashing - I'm always up for a bit of that. I could've been a lot more personal - I refrained (and deleted a lot!).

Enid, LOL at your "why do you even care" post coming directly after one saying thank you for this thread. I'm not aware that it's the law that you only care about things happening to children of the age of your own - what a strange view.

I seem to recall you didn't much care (or you said you didn't) when your DD3 was weaning age though - didn't you spend a fair amount of time arguing with Aitch (and me) about BLW at the time?

I dont think you can look at the decisions of individual mothers in isolation. IMO its about much bigger issues

i think there is a strong "intuition" in many people that "proper" food, especially "special" baby food from packets or jars must be better than that thin weak looking grey white liquid called breast milk. Which is only produced by mothers, who perhaps have no qualfications or training in nutrition. In completely unsterile conditions.

You cant even measure how much babies are getting.And no one makes any money out of it at all.In our society, anything that is free is under valued

Doctors cant control it. And Hv cant make Bf babies conform to their charts, which seem to have changed from being a way of representing data to the ideal to which every baby must conform

so if you believe in "experts" and "professionals" and " science" and are pressurised by relatives, health care professionals and the media, i can see why packets of baby rice and jars or pureee will seem intuitively better for your baby than milk

KM, fab post.

I'll never forget DS1 gumming away on a piece of cheese when he was about 7mo and someone asking if it was "special baby cheese".

Yes, made from babies. FFS!