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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

If you don't follow latest research or guidelines wrt baby feeding (in particular weaning)

220 replies

hunkermunker · 21/05/2008 13:47

Can I ask why?

Obviously all babies are individuals, yada yada - and guidelines are just that.

But what happens to make you disregard the up-to-date stuff?

(This is following on from a posting on another thread - but I wanted to make it a less personal, wider thread, rather than it be construed as an attack on one person - because I think the process of how we make decisions regarding our children is interesting).

OP posts:
cadelaide · 22/05/2008 17:11

Annoys you TinkerbellesMum?

TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:15

Yes. Not so much that they weaned at 8 weeks, but that they think full jars and hungrier baby milk justify their decision.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 17:29

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StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 17:29

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TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:31

It can only be given one to one when requested, no one is allowed to offer help with FF without being asked.

TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:32

I just reread my peeve. I'm talking about people who wean at something stupid like 8 weeks - and yes, I do know plenty of people who have done exactly what I described.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 17:33

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TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:53

Take it up with UNICEF.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 17:56

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TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:58

I thought I answered that.

TinkerbellesMum · 22/05/2008 17:59

Sorry, misread your question. Yes, it is from UNICEF.

tiktok · 22/05/2008 18:03

Not a stupid rule or patronising....group instruction in ff undermines breastfeeding and is an ineffective way of teaching the important things people need to know about ff. There is a ton of discussion on this in the mumsnet archives.

Starlight, I can assure you that antenatal instruction that got down to the detail of hungry/non-hungry baby milk and size of teat would have been massively detailed, and very unlikely to have stayed in your partner's head 5 days postnatal at 4 am.

If you needed help in using formula at that time, you could have called the maternity unit.

'My partner's going out for some formula, bottles and teats - what should he get?' is an easy question for them, and you would have got an individual answer he could remember!

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 18:07

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VacantlyPretty · 22/05/2008 18:25

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tiktok · 22/05/2008 19:37

Starlight - good postnatal care would have included a careful and insistent invitation to phone the maternity unit or the duty community midwife if you were concerned about anything at all.

Antenatal info about bottles, teats and milk cannot be a substitute for good care.

Scoobi6 · 22/05/2008 19:55

I started weaning dd at around 4 mo because she had to do full days (7.30 am - 4.45 pm) in nursery from 5.5 mo. I had to go back to work to pay the bills. She had been taking one bottle ebm a day for a while, in preparation for this... but suddenly refused bottles completely at 4 mo. We tried everything - different teats, different people, beakers, doidy cup, milk from a spoon but she would just howl herself sick unless I bf her. We had one horrendous day of trying to starve her out of it but I couldn't bear the thought of leaving her alone at nursery like that. Nursery is an hour away from my work so there wasn't going to be the option of popping in to feed her.

The only way I could reassure myself that she would get some food (well liquid really was my main worry) at nursery was to start her on veg purees and milky baby rice. She LOVED the food. We started very slowly, no gluten etc until after 6 months. But by the time she started nursery I was confident I could leave her and she'd get through the day.

StarlightMcKenzie · 22/05/2008 20:07

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welliemum · 22/05/2008 20:27

Eek, I just reread my earlier post and I was being misleading - in that study I mentioned, 1.2% were exclusively breast fed to 6 months. Some others would have been mix fed or exclusively formula fed to 6 months - but I gather, not many. So sorry for not making that clear. That said, it really is fabulously rare to wean at 6 months.

niecie,it's a good point about why there isn't a good study we can point to, comparing babies who were weaned at different ages.

There have been a few studies like that, but the results are inconclusive. The main difficulty is with confounding. What this means is that babies who wean early and late are different for other reasons than simply the age they were weaned.

You mentioned studying the babies weaned at 6 months, comparing them with babies weaned earlier. But those 6 month babies aren't a random section of the population.

It's been established in other studies, for example, that the more educated parents are, the later they tend to wean. The parents of the 6 monthers, in particular, are likely to be well educated and have read around the topic in order to have resisted the crowd pressure to wean earlier.

Many of the babies in that group will come from allergic families, who tend to wean their babies later. Babies weaned at 6 months are more likely to be breastfed than the general population (and they'll be quite a special case of breastfed babies too, as most have stopped by 6 months). And some babies who wean later might be refusing food because they're intolerant to something and it's making them feel unwell.

So you see, these babies could be different from the general population in various ways. If you then compare their health with other babies, you're comparing apples and pears. You might find differences between the groups but it'd be hard to know whether the diferences were due to weaning, or some other factor.

The only way to be sure of eliminating the confounding effects would be to randomise (ie tell parents "You will wean your baby at X weeks") but most parents wouldn't stand for it (I wouldn't).

My job is in research (nothing to do with infant nutrition!) and it strikes me every day how easy it is to ask questions - good, relevant, practical questions - but how difficult it is to design a study that will clearly answer that question. Very frustrating!

missorinoco · 22/05/2008 20:35

hadn't thought of that tiktok. (am now pondering away to myself about it.)

tori32 · 22/05/2008 21:47

Tink, Hunker asked why I didn't follow advice. They are my personal reasons and experiences. I don't need to listen or be reasoned with because its my choice, my opinion and my dcs that matter to me. I don't feel the need to do everything by the book. Weaning is a small part of motherhood. By the fact that I have a very bright, beautiful, healthy dd1 and dd2 who is thriving, I don't feel I need to justify my choices to anyone, hence I don't usually make any effort to find links supporting my choices- I know there aren't many LOL!

On the time spent feeding instead of playing/learning things- they know how to breast feed but are learning to eat/experience swallowing more than milk. I think it must be harder for them to adjust to solids when previously they have only swallowed milk, then wam, at 6mths they are expected to bite/chew and swallow food, which takes lots of co-ordination. Instead I feel it must be easier for them to make a gradual transition by eating thicker solids, then small lumps and then full solids. Its for this reason that the diet is like this for stroke patients who lose their swallowing reflex. The SALT usually makes an assessment and puts the patient on the correct level. As most people don't know how to assess swallowing reflex I choose to take the slow gradual approach. If they gradually build up their swallowing co-ordination, Ifeel they would be less likely to choke.

tori32 · 22/05/2008 21:51

Oh and btw, when I say weaning, I mean introduce solids, not stop breast feeding them The amount will possibly reduce but they will still get nourishment and antibodies from what they have.

hunkermunker · 22/05/2008 23:46

Tori, it has been mooted that babies are more likely to choke on lumpier purees because they're used to slurping off a spoon and the lumps get taken to the back of the mouth rather more quickly than the baby is expecting - because they're not expecting lumps at all.

Also, babies of 4mo are often fed "reclined" - have a look and see how many highchairs have a recline facility on them - loads of the enormous contraption ones do.

I think it's safe to say you and I have very different ideas about food and its purpose in life. I see it as something to explore, learn about, develop an interest in - as a plaything in itself in the early stages of eating, in fact. I have two boys who pack away vast quantities of all sorts of food and are lean as anything - yet they were weaned at six months (DS2 a bit later - and neither ate anything much till nearer 8 months).

I am conscious that I want the boys to learn about their hunger cues - so when they're hungry, they eat, when they're full, they stop to help them maintain a healthy weight later in life. I don't think your method allows for that in the same way. I bet you talk about clean plates and finishing it all.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 22/05/2008 23:50

Also, did you read the responses to your points?

Does none of the replies make more sense to you?

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tiktok · 22/05/2008 23:52

I give up, tori.

If you are now using the experience of stroke patients to justify your bizarre opinions on infant weaning, then there is no point in talking about it any more.

Sheesh.

VVVQVsSockPuppet · 23/05/2008 00:11

Eating can be play and development at the same time. They dont have to be two different things, do they?
h
Please explain how a stroke patient is like a developing baby?

How I see it - stroke patients (of the severity I think you are referring to) suffer a catastrophic loss of motor skills on one or both sides. Their diet is supplemented by nutrition packs to sustain them and they have therapy to to try and regain as much movement as possible. Essentially though, they are living with a disability.

A baby is constantly developing and refining their skills and movements, and essentially, exploring everything, whilst maintaining milk feeds as their core sustenance. They are starting from scratch and arent having to re-learn skills, or, work around a disability.