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Vegan

Join Mumsnet's vegan community and discuss everything related to the vegan diet.

Raising vegan DC with meat eating DH

121 replies

MissBax · 08/12/2017 16:40

I'm just wondering how people found raising children vegan if other parent is a meat eater? When teaching them to respect animals and not eat them did they ever ask why daddy/mummy eats meat? How did you answer this or justify it?! Thanks :)

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 09/12/2017 11:31

Vegan diet can leave children severely short of essential nutrients

The focal word there being can

A meat eating diet can leave children severely short of essential nutrients. And thats a fact.

See how it works both ways?

Agreed. So a balanced diet is the best diet. I think being a vegetarian can provide a balanced diet. But it is much much more difficult for a Vegan as it is so restrictive. I urge you to think again.

MissBax · 09/12/2017 11:33

Viviennemary and I urge you to get off the vegan board :) have a nice day

OP posts:
NoelNiki · 09/12/2017 11:33

When teaching them to respect animals and not eat them did they ever ask why daddy/mummy eats meat?

There is a food chain. Animals eat each other. Tell them that.

mustbemad17 · 09/12/2017 11:39

OP is your house vegan friendly? Just wondering because is that not something you will have to factor in too?

MissBax · 09/12/2017 11:39

Animals eat each other. Tell them that.

Some animals eat other animals

OP posts:
NoelNiki · 09/12/2017 11:41

But they still do

MissBax · 09/12/2017 11:42

And...?

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 09/12/2017 11:42

Sorry if I'm making things uncomfortable for you. Is your DH welcome on the Vegan board. I take it that he wouldn't be.

MissBax · 09/12/2017 11:45

Viviennemary - making things uncomfortable?! Haha. I just don't understand why you're even commenting on here. DH isn't on mumsnet so...

OP posts:
quarterpast · 09/12/2017 11:47

God people are brave on the internet! Would you dare to directly criticise somebody who chose to be vegan in real life- to their face? Unlikely. In the real world people do what they want regarding dietary choices and the rest of the world respects that. You're never going to change somebody's mind by sniping at them on a forum. I really wish people would be more respectful online.

SuburbanRhonda · 09/12/2017 11:48

viviennemary

Some links to your assertions about how a vegan diet is unsuitable for children would be great.

Oliversmumsarmy · 09/12/2017 12:08

Dd and ds both raised vegetarian. Both very tall and slim and healthy.

I am virtually vegan as I am allergic to dairy and I don't really like eggs.

Dp is a meat eater. Never had a meal that didn't contain meat.

It has never been an issue. The only time it has cropped up in conversation between dc and dp is when dc try to tell dp that he should try their food once in a while because their food looks and tastes great and his looks like brown sludge or wedges of dark brown cardboard and smells not nice.

ReturnOfTheMackYesItIs · 09/12/2017 12:16

I'm not sure how you can explain 'we' don't eat/kill animals or pay others to kill them but Daddy does?

Unless you reword it as 'some people do, including Daddy'. The 'we don't' in regards to you and your DC would be confusing wouldn't it?

MissBax · 09/12/2017 12:18

ReturnOfTheMackYesItIs - good point! I think I just typed 'we' without thinking, but I suppose I can only speak for myself! Thanks :)

OP posts:
ColonelJackONeil · 09/12/2017 12:18

I think most people want to be kind to animals and the main point we disagree on is whether it's cruel to kill them in a humane manner.

Meat eaters would say as long as the animal has been well treated and you kill them humanely so they are not scared or hurt then it's ok since the animal has benefited as it probably wouldn't even have lived at all if we hadn't bred it. It still had a good life, if shorter than natural. It didn't suffer and doesn't really know anything about its death.

Vegetarians or vegans either disagree that the killing can be done humanely enough or they think it's bad in itself to deprive the animal of life. Also some vegans think it's impossible to keep animals in kind enough conditions on farms or at least they can't afford to buy the very high welfare animal products. Some people who are otherwise vegan will eat eggs they produce at home, for example, as they know the chickens were well cared for but would not trust anyone they didn't know really well.

Personally as a meat eater I believe that the benefits in continued existence of their species and having a good life, are worth it for farm animals that are well treated and humanely killed. I don't want a countryside without sheep or cows and I do think they enjoy their lives if well treated. But I can fully understand why someone might not agree especially if they think the truly higher welfare products are too hard to get hold of. I do agree a lot of agriculture can be very cruel. I can see why they might think it's just wrong to kill an animal altogether too and that's the main question we have to decide on, as I said. Is it just wrong to kill at all? However I think this is too hard a question for little dc.

So if young dc asked I wouldn't want to talk about killing but I would say mummy thinks some farmers are cruel to animals and doesn't want to eat (or prepare) meat ever just in case an animal would be hurt, but Daddy thinks it's ok as long as you check the farmers are kind, but we all agree you must be kind to animals. Once the dc get a bit older you can each explain your point of view in more detail and see what they think.

We do live in a society of meat eaters and you don't want dc to think they are all horrible, so even if all the family were vegan it's important to explain that most people love animals but think it's ok to keep them on farms but you respectfully disagree with their point of view.

As they get older you could introduce the fact that some people don't really look into the cruel conditions animals can be kept in and show how even if they grow up to eat meat like their father they can make sure animals are treated kindly on farms by being aware of farming practices and only buying high welfare meat or animal products.

PurplePillowCase · 09/12/2017 12:22

where is your dh on this? is he on board with raising dc vegan? or does he leave it all up to you?

MissBax · 09/12/2017 12:23

ColonelJackONeil

Thats a really good post, thank you. You're right, I certainly don't want them to think their friends are cruel or evil, and don't want them to ostracise themselves or others.
I have plenty of omnivorous friends / family and don't think those things so wouldn't want DC to either.
That's a good way of wording it :)

OP posts:
MissBax · 09/12/2017 12:24

Purple - as I said up thread, DH is happy for children to be veggie, which I'm ok with.

OP posts:
Whatslovegottodo · 09/12/2017 12:39

So many people judge vegan diets while being fine with people feeding their kids McDonalds burgers and pizzas on a regular basis! It's bizarre.

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest dietary advisory has advised veganism is:

'appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes'

A well thought out vegan diet is far far nutritionally superior to the standard western diet.

Any supplement needed is only because cows are supplemented with b12 so we take it directly rather than second hand. Also take Omega 3 DHA direct from the source (algae) rather than second hand from fish. Many processed meats are even a class 1 carcinogen so it's pretty conclusive that's not a good thing to feed your kids. Plus if you wouldn't take your child to a slaughterhouse and you wouldn't kill or be cruel to an animal yourself I personally think it's wrong to pay someone else to do it.

I would suggest many of you to look at the China study. Or a little round up article of some health benefits from studies here www.ecohustler.co.uk/2017/07/03/20-health-benefits-going-vegan-according-science/.

I can't believe the short sited, miss informed views given to the OP on a vegan board. Maybe educate yourselves rather than believing what the media/ your parents/ traditions have told you rather than attacking the OP for considering a compassionate and healthy choice for her child.

takingsmallsteps · 09/12/2017 12:42

I was raised vegetarian and now flirting with veganism (don't really like eggs and the only dairy I have is cheese). My husband eats meat.

I do the meal planning and cooking so our meals are all vegetarian/vegan by default. I'll cook fish fingers in the oven but the smell is quite off-putting so it's not very frequent and I definitely wouldn't want raw meat in the kitchen. My husband and children will eat meat at restaurants/school/work/nursery but even then it isn't a daily thing. Despite being meat eaters there's no sense of needing meat to survive, they just enjoy it when it is available. My son (age 4) has asked a lot of questions about why I don't eat meat and tries to persuade me it's delicious so I explain. I don't keep any secrets so he knows exactly what he eats and where it has come from (e.g yes this is the same as the lamb you fed at the farm last week). He knows daddy eats meat and if he asks why I leave that for daddy to answer and justify.

Since verging on the more vegan side, I've started thinking a lot about how we can live more ethically as a family and me and my husband have had a few discussions about how this could be possible. E.g. is meat at school likely to be cheaply produced and therefore unlikely to be high welfare? Do we need to consider not ordering meat meals at school?

Our son overhears all this occasionally and I think it is really healthy to constantly examine our own views in front of him and leave him best able to make his own decisions. I would have loved to raise him vegetarian but at the time I wasn't as ethically attached to the idea and I liked what my husband proposed - that my son could live a life without unnecessary restrictions.

Blackteadrinker77 · 09/12/2017 12:44

The China study isn't worth the paper it is written on. They left out any data that went against the rhetoric and they twisted the data to suit their purpose.

A vegan diet is no better or worse than any other diet if you hit your macro/micros.

LapinR0se · 09/12/2017 12:46

Actually laughed out loud at someone writing “short sited, miss informed” and then telling us to educate ourselves Grin

MissBax · 09/12/2017 12:54

takingsmallsteps

Really good to hear how you do things in your family. I too would want DC to know where their meat comes from if they do choose to eat it, and I think it's healthy that they hear you discuss the ethics / quality of the meat you eat.

A vegan diet is no better or worse than any other diet if you hit your macro/micros.

Id have to disagree with this - there are direct links to heart disease, cholesterol and cancers from meats.

OP posts:
mustbemad17 · 09/12/2017 13:03

Ultimately i think it will come down to how you word it. If you go at it like meat eaters are murderers you potentially alienate DP. If you go at it as personal choice - and then explain your reasons - you probably wouldn't have so many obstacles

NoelNiki · 09/12/2017 13:14

Id have to disagree with this - there are direct links to heart disease, cholesterol and cancers from meats.

The jury's out on soya......