AIBU to meet other school parents without my daughter’s friend?

[Fedddup]

DD’s current best friend (Zoe) is going to secondary school with her. From her current primary school it’s just these 2 girls going same secondary school there are other girls going from different primary class but they will be in a different form class.

I’m not overly close with Zoe’s mum, I have tried but it’s been difficult as she doesn’t always respond to messages within what I feel is a polite timely response e.g. me: “hi are you free to go coffee tomorrow morning?” or “do you want to bring Zoe to mine Tuesday after school” type messages. She will respond but after the event whilst I’ve been waiting around. Whereas I’m really quick at replying. I never not answered a message the day I receive it. This is just for background context not a dig although it does annoy me when people don’t respond to time sensitive messages, but that’s not the point of this thread!

So anyway here is my dilemma which in all honesty is in my head I believe but I need outside perspective :

I have got very close with Zoe’s mum over past month and even told her private things going on with DH and private things about my childhood and about my brother which I have never in past 6.5 years of knowing her ever spoke about. So I feel we have got close. She confided in me also she’s very worried about her DD making friends in secondary but is very happy my DD in same class so doesn’t have to worry. Her DD is quiet and introverted whereas mine is social.

On induction day my DD made friends with a few kids in the class already and 2 parents have reached out for a play date too. There’s a WhatsApp group set up with parents of our form class. I know this sounds weird but I suspect I may be ND but I feel I’m cheating or doing something bad if I go and meet these girls with the parents as Zoe and her mum will be left out - does that make sense? If I’m being honest I don’t feel I have a connection with Zoe’s mum and I would like to meet other parents as over the years I’ve isolated myself due to issues going on with me so this is my new beginning if that makes sense to get to know new people. Just for context too as I’m surprised at mumsnet sometimes as people seem to live in a totally different world - where we live it’s very normal for parents to come with their kids to play dates, it’s actually frowned upon if the parent doesn’t stay that’s the reason I haven’t done much with DD as I didn’t want to sit around with people. Even in the secondary school the mums that have reached out have made it very clear they want to meet up with me whilst the girls do their thing. We live up North in a multicultural area so maybe that’s the difference as the parents really go all out when other parents visit by having tea and snacks and drinks etc. if I was to drop off DD that would be rude. Obviously at some point I will like when she’s 12/13 but meeting parents for first time they will expect me to stay as they want to get to know us.

DD is my only child so I feel it’s now or never to create my community as she will get older and it will be pick up and drop offs without me so I won’t get to know the school mums.

Should I go ahead and make friends with these people or will it look bad as Zoe’ s mum will think bad of me? Again I’m ND so please be kind.

I suppose swap the scenarios. You talked to someone about feeling worried about your daughter meeting friends and settling in at secondary school but being glad that her best friend their daughter was with her. Then the very person you've said this to arranges a meet up with other people to make friends with without your daughter. How do you/ your daughter feel?

Obviously if you're invited to someone's house you can't include others as @Magicmagician says. But if it's in a park or whatever you could easily mention it. The other mums might well do the same.

Not at secondary, that's not common. I live in a very diverse area with families from traditional backgrounds. Also please don't call it playdate at secondary it's infantilising.

I think you need to step back from Whatsapp groups and 'play dates' Secondary school is completely different from Primary school.

I think you’re overthinking this. You’ve been invited to have a coffee with another new mum(s) from secondary school whilst your dds hang out. Other mum(s) didn’t invite Zoe or her mum, so they aren’t involved.

If you invite any of these people back, you can invite ZM or not as you please…as you say, she’s ditzy about picking up invites so probably won’t turn up.

The one thing I would say - I’m an international school teacher where inevitably you’re in a community where your dc’s form tutor is your neighbour & best friends with your line manager whom your teenager babysits for and THEY live next door to your teenager’s bully whose dad is in the same tutor group team as you & your buddy from yoga class whose kid was besties with your youngest but now they’ve had a huge fallout &&& - you really, really don’t want to get over involved with your dc’s friends’ parents.

No deep & meaningful ‘trauma dump’ conversations. No agonising over whether you’re ‘close’ to someone you don’t actually like much. No fretting over whether you have to be mates with everyone, or whether you’re allowed to be mates with anyone else…

Just have a coffee, confine all discussions about your dc to ‘kids eh?’ & let the chips fall where they may. Or your life will be nothing but drama!

Going forward you are unlikely to be in this sort of situation again. Forming an WhatsApp group for parents of secondary aged children is unusual.

Even at this point arranging "play dates" and using that expression feels age inappropriate.

Keep it light because your DDs friends will probably end up being different children by 6 weeks in.

You say Zoe's mum is in the whatsapp chat - is this invite to on there or was it a pm? If it's a pm then you can't invite a.n.other, if it's on the same group chat then it's nothing to do with you whether Zoe's mum goes or not. I'm struggling to understand this 'trauma dump' expression tbh as I've only ever shared sensitive stuff with really good friends and never with someone I 'have nothing in common with' so it may be she thinks you're good friends (after meeting for coffee a few times). Go and enjoy it, don't pretend to be someone you're not and be careful to give clear messages to others so they know where they stand. Zoe's mum? I think she'll do better without you honestly.

watching tv and playing board games in the bedroom.

I've had children go through secondary school, and I've never sat downstairs with tea and snacks while they were upstairs playing board games or watching TV. By the time they're in secondary school, they usually prefer to meet up outside, wander around the park, or head to the shops together.

What was common in primary school where mums and little ones would meet up for playdates usually stops once they move to secondary school. Parents might grab a quick coffee to introduce themselves or get to know each other a bit, but it's not common to spend the whole time together when the kids are meeting up at someone's house. Do you work, OP?

Be mindful not to spoil your dd's newfound freedom by trying to closely befriend her friends mums. be happy that she herself is growing her wings.

So, don’t invite her. 🤷‍♀️

Given that the frankly bizarre play date is at someone else’s home, no. It would be incredibly rude to invite someone else.

If you were hosting then it would be fine, but it’s not OK to invite someone to somebody else’s house. Especially when you don’t really know them.

3 or 4 times in a month?

Respectfully, OP, it's difficult to understand because your ideas about what constitutes 'closeness' and, I suspect, from what you say, friendships and social life in general, are very distorted. You cannot possibly have become 'very close' with anyone over the course of three or four coffees during which you 'moaned about your DH' in a month. That's barely new acquaintance territory.

You say you have no one to talk to, and that you have hidden away from socialising, even things like going around with young children at Halloween to the point where you think your DD missed out significantly. You don't want Zoe's mother to attend the 'playdates' to which you and your DD have been invited, because you feel she will know things about you and you won't be able to put on the same 'mask' and 'pretend you're OK' -- why? No one in any social setting is under the impression other people don't have problems.

You've created some entire dilemma in your head based on tying yourself into knots about someone you've had coffee with three or four times, and the idea that a couple of get-togethers with other parents in your DD's secondary school form are going to be your new social life.

And no, as @Coralsunset has said -- this is at someone else's house. Someone else has issued invitations. You can't invite someone else, no. It's not that complicated.

If you would like to include Zoe's mother in some other way, suggest a coffee at your own house. That way you can invite who you like.

@OctopusHands that not what’s happening! I met with Zoe and her mum last week. Nothing has changed because of “what I did” it’s more that I want to widen my circle . Zoe’s mum has her entire family living in the town, she has childhood friends plus is friendly with all the school mums in primary class. I just want to get to know people but don’t know whether I should be including her.

Ok, then do not invite Zoe or her mother.

It did sound to me like you had changed the relationship that your daughter has with Zoe because you said you trauma dumped onto Zoe's mum and you told her things that you had never told anyone and she had shared things with you too. Then you said your behaviour would be different with the new mums if Zoe's mum was there.

So, to me it sounded like you were altering the relationship between the girls because of what you had said to Zoe's mum.

This thread has shocked me! My kids are in primary, and I definitely didn’t think “playdates” with mums in tow and class whatsapp groups would be a thing in secondary school!

Maybe time to let these kids grow up a bit??

And absolutely to this. By the time school starts, your DD may have decided these kids are not her cup of tea at all. Don't fence her in by thinking that having a coffee with their parents has committed you both to an undying bond.

It's never been anywhere I've ever lived. DS has had two years at secondary school, and I've met precisely two of his friends' parents, on one occasion each -- and one of those was only because DS said hello to him getting off a plane because the dad was the pilot on his way out of the cockpit!

its very unusual for play dates like this to be set up at secondary age but you can’t invite Zoe along as it’s not your house. Most secondary kids just invite each other out or go to town or something. Maybe you could go on this play date and then reciprocate but also invite Zoe and her daughter to your house when you do it. I’m not sure why it matters that you think you are ND. It’s an unusual situation for anyone to be in. Play dates are very unexpected for secondary age children with all the mums downstairs and all the children upstairs.

i’d never let my kids go to someone’s house if I hadn’t met them and that isn’t unusual here - my daughter met a girl at dance and wanted her to come over so I spoke to the mum at dance and she said would it be ok if I came and stayed for a little while - absolutely I said - the mum came the girls played and she is now a good friend.
I’d much rather than plus if there is any issues then you have a point of contact.

If you’ve been invited by someone else, it would be rude of you to invite Zoe and her mum. Go, it’s a great opportunity for both you and your daughter. There will probably be times when Zoe is invited and your daughter isn’t and that’s ok. Go and enjoy yourselves.

No, you can't invite Zoe's mum. It's not your event, it's not up to you to invite additional people.

Let the kids organize their own activities from now on. They're in secondary school, they're old enough to not want it need their mothers hanging round. Especially if their mothers are overthinking the way you do. Their friendship groups will change regularly as they get to know more people. You're not helping if you have to get mothers involved as well.

Stop trauma dumping on practical strangers!

Don’t overthink it. Just go if you want to and Zoe can sort her own friendships out.
have to say - once in secondary I didn’t get involved at all with DCs friends.

OP, you have had an invitation and you can absolutely do this without inviting Zoe and her child.
They were not included in the invite so I wouldn't include them.

Friendships change, they might not be friends by Christmas so you need to be very flexible.

Be very open minded and encouraging of your daughter making new friends.
This is very normal.

My daughters closest friend from primary and my daughter remained close, despite making seperate friend groups in secondary.

Keep your business to yourself going forward!

But be open to all new friends, just don't rely on them being very close rather than situational.

You can be kind but do not take on responsibility for another childs socialisation.
You have enough with your own child.
Good luck.

Me too...you said you were so close to Zoe's mum you recently disclosed some very personal things to her then at the end of your post said you didn't feel connected to her. You can be friendly with other mums and also Zoe's mum maybe separately. Secondary school is a very different dynamic you will find young people want to meet up and go out in groups together without parents

It all sounds very enmeshed, I think you are massively overthinking it all.

kids make their own friends at secondary and don;t really need their parents to facilitate, they make their own arrangements, but if it is the norm to arrange play dates for them then it is what it is.

I don;t understand why your desire for your DD to widen her circle means that Zoe has to be excluded, why wouldn't you want to include a child who is also starting a new school where she knows nobody except your DD, in a gathering to meet new people? Surely inviting Zoe as well is the kind and decent thing to do? Your DD making new friends doesn;t mean she has to dump Zoe.

these play dates are surely for the children;s benefit, so ask Zoe too, and that means in your circle that the Mum comes as well, she may or may not turn up, but I don;t see what harm having her and her DD there will do, it's just a few mums of kids starting secondary, all their friendships will be fluid over the coming year this is just a pre term social, it doesn't determine the future. no need to exclude anyone.

This is all very odd that you would 'trauma dump' on any of your DD's friends parents after just a few weeks of being closer to them.

Can you not leave your daughter's friendship groups alone and make friends for yourself elsewhere?

I don't think she'll thank you for the enmeshment and the problems this sort of thing so often causes.

How did you make friends before you had DC?

I'd invite Zoe's mum. I think it's quite cruel to make a conscious decision to exclude someone you have recently got close to. Even more so when they shared fears for their DD starting high school and struggling with friendships.
You probably need to lower your expectations in thinking you will build a community or you could end up disappointed. I've not know anyone strike up friendships when their DC are friends at high school. It's a pretty risky move to have them be your main social group too. Teens fall out a lot and if your DD falls out with them you may lose all your friendships. If you want to make friends start a hobby or meet up with work colleagues