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Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Original poster

How do they choose the horses for Modern Pentathlon?

248 replies

DazzlePaintedBattlePants · 06/08/2021 17:09

Just watched the German competitor leave the arena in tears at the Tokyo Olympics after a fairly horrific showjumping round, where the horse was being a complete sod. I’m fairly sure the horses are assigned randomly to the competitors but where do they come from? Do the organisers phone up their mates and ask for the stroppiest horses going?

I get that horsemanship is obviously the important skill to demonstrate but the horses are a fairly large confounding variable😂

OP posts:
DesdemonaDryEyes · 07/08/2021 16:08

The same horses were used for the men. Saint Boy was removed from the pool.

Some chose not to ride their allocated horse but to ride one of the reserves.

And that doesn’t look like a hard punch to me. I very much doubt the horse felt it.

Bryonyshcmyony · 07/08/2021 16:10

And that doesn’t look like a hard punch to me. I very much doubt the horse felt it

Lots of horses from yesterday didn't jump today - the two very naughty ones Constantin and Saint Boy, but also John, Beauty and a couple of others. So they must have replaced them with others.

That's not really rh point though is it?

Bryonyshcmyony · 07/08/2021 16:11

It's not the point that the horse felt it (he would have felt it though, although it may not have hurt it would still have been a surprise as presumably he's not used to being punched)

FitToFly · 07/08/2021 16:18

Why are people on here justifying a horse being punched? It’s like the same preachy oddballs on Facebook who say that unless you ride to an Olympic standard you can’t criticise. Absolutely barmy.
@Bryonyshcmyony I agree with you.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 07/08/2021 16:20

I've just watched her at London (about 54 minutes on the YouTube video) — she patted the horse at the beginning and the end and although it wasn't a clear round she looked quite happy and relaxed and the commentators were reasonably complimentary about her riding.

I think she and Saint Boy just really didn't get on.

Squirrel26 · 07/08/2021 16:38

A horse can feel a fly landing on it. Of course it’s going to feel a punch!

MotionActivatedDog · 07/08/2021 16:39

Aside from whether the horse was hurt by the punch or not- what exactly did the coach think it would achieve? Confused I mean he was already being hauled by his mouth, whipped and kicked hard with spurs by the person on his back- what exactly was the coach expecting from the punch? Did she think the horse would think “oh the coach has spoken- I better settle down”. it was pure anger and frustration on the coach’s part- that was plain for all to see. She was angry and lashed out at the horse. It doesn’t matter that it mightn’t have hurt him. It matters that she tried to in anger.

AtlasNeverShrugged · 07/08/2021 16:47

I have a lot of sympathy.

For the horse.

I hope that that woman is never allowed near horses again. Horses are not cars

Tiddleztheelephant · 07/08/2021 16:59

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

I've just watched her at London (about 54 minutes on the YouTube video) — she patted the horse at the beginning and the end and although it wasn't a clear round she looked quite happy and relaxed and the commentators were reasonably complimentary about her riding.

I think she and Saint Boy just really didn't get on.

Yes I've watched that today too, she was like a completely different rider. The whole situation is such a shame, I do feel sorry for her but I feel sorrier for the horse who didn't ask to be put forward for this event and found itself being hauled around, kicked and punched Sad
JayAlfredPrufrock · 07/08/2021 17:25

Here’s the petition

snowqu33n · 07/08/2021 17:47

The horse was nappy but he knew his job when he heard the bell to start. He was probably upset by the previous rider but the German’s problems really started when she dropped the contact and tipped him into the bottom of that upright. He lost all trust then and was having none of it after that.
He was never going to do the upright before the triple without a bit of fuss though.
I guess they didn’t take the pool horse instead because they had gambled on the first rider getting the horse around and used to the jumps before she rode it. It backfired on her but it probably seemed like good tactics.
She should have behaved differently.
I was really surprised at the amount of yelling etc. from coaches allowed (and of course the punch), excessive use of whip and so on. That kind of behavior was grounds for immediate elimination in eventing rules even at lowest levels when I was last in the UK about 15 years ago so to see it at the Olympics in 2021… wow.
I agree that spurs should not be allowed for the modern pentathlon.
I imagine it would be up to the owners or trainers how the horse is tacked up.

If I owned one of the horses that was ridden so roughly I would be feeling pretty bad right now about allowing them to be used. Some people in the horse business are quite ruthless though.

Bryonyshcmyony · 07/08/2021 17:52

I don't have a problem with spurs or even gag bits, although you do need to be taught to ride with them properly, yes would be much nicer in a snaffle but tbh there aren't many 120cm showjumpers who go in snaffles, particularly for shit riders

There ARE minimum standards for pentathlon riding already, in the UK at least you must pass various riding certificates and I think that applies worldwide

So I won't sign because what they are asking isn't researched properly

Better to ask for the horse element of Pentathlon to be covered by FEI

Or just dropped altogether

Tiddleztheelephant · 07/08/2021 18:20

I've been watching the London 2012 pentathlon today and apparently each horse has a little team around it who basically tell the rider how to ride it. Does this happen in every country do you know?

I wonder, instead of dropping the whole riding element, couldn't they just drop the 20 minute aspect?
Assign the horses the day before and allow time for a riding lesson with their horse the day before?

Perhaps that would stop some of the really upsetting things you see?

JayAlfredPrufrock · 07/08/2021 18:24

I’m still reeling from someone saying upthread that Rio and Tokyo had a better field of horses to choose from that the UK. As we don’t have decent riding clubs.

I remember reading about the selection of horses for the London Olympics.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 07/08/2021 18:24

And I’m sure I heard that horses had to be flown out to Tokyo for the event as they couldn’t find enough.

Bryonyshcmyony · 07/08/2021 18:33

@Tiddleztheelephant

I've been watching the London 2012 pentathlon today and apparently each horse has a little team around it who basically tell the rider how to ride it. Does this happen in every country do you know?

I wonder, instead of dropping the whole riding element, couldn't they just drop the 20 minute aspect?
Assign the horses the day before and allow time for a riding lesson with their horse the day before?

Perhaps that would stop some of the really upsetting things you see?

No.

Whenever we buy a new horse was assume it will take a year to make a partnership

AbsolutelyPatsy · 07/08/2021 18:38

but more than one person rides the horses at the pentathlon

NeverDropYourMooncup · 07/08/2021 18:47

@Tiddleztheelephant

I've been watching the London 2012 pentathlon today and apparently each horse has a little team around it who basically tell the rider how to ride it. Does this happen in every country do you know?

I wonder, instead of dropping the whole riding element, couldn't they just drop the 20 minute aspect?
Assign the horses the day before and allow time for a riding lesson with their horse the day before?

Perhaps that would stop some of the really upsetting things you see?

Seeing as the woman sent home after thumping the poor thing was saying 'really hit it', I don't think that's really going to make that much of a difference with a competitor (I won't call her a rider, as she clearly isn't) who had already given an interview saying she was scared/frightened of the riding element - I reckon that this was not a lost in translation thing, either - and was already doing what is probably the nearest thing to a real life Mumsnet 'shaking and crying here' before she completely freaked the horse out and hurt it.

If she's lost her bottle because she's a bit shit and then there's a dickhead who thinks hitting the horse will magically turn somebody shit on horses and scared (maybe she fell off recently?) yelling at her to hit it, she needs to change sports to one that doesn't require her to deal with an intelligent, sentient species who knows damn well there's something very, very wrong and risky with both the person on their back and the people around them.

Tiddleztheelephant · 07/08/2021 18:56

That's very sad, it sounds as if she's got a coach who's not a sympathetic rider herself and was not able to train her in how to deal effectively with a difficult horse. At London 2012 she comes across as a reasonably efficient rider who patted her horse at the end, so possibly yes she's had a fall and lost her nerve.... who knows.

randomsabreuse · 07/08/2021 19:44

What I meant by "riding clubs" is riding clubs where the club owns the horses and members ride them. UK riding clubs (other than those based in riding schools) tend not to own horses, and are in fact clubs for people who own their own horses.

Horse ownership in the UK is more widespread and individualistic than say Tokyo or Hong Kong.

I think that anywhere running stage 4/5 (as was) would have horses that could jump 120cm but very few would be schoolmasters in the sense of need a human to read the numbers and keep out of the way! Those tend to be silly money on the UK market but the UK lacks the tradition of military funding competitive riders (and buying their horses) (Rio horses were from military saddle clubs). When the Japanese first moved into eventing their team horses were owned by a riding club in/near Tokyo and were matched with suitable riders rather than the riders buying them as youngsters and bringing them on through the UK grassroots system.

Tactically after the previous round I would have "felt" the horse being a bit unlevel/lame and forced the use of an alternate horse - there was no way a nervous rider was going to solve the issues, although a strong, confident rider with an eye for a stride probably could have solved.

I'd assume she dropped the contact in front of the warm up fence or missed her stride there too - possibly making it worse. I'd probably (if unable to swap the horse) have spent most of the warm up in walk, bit of leg yield/basic sideways to get him off the leg and only jumped a smaller fence. Possibly trot on a loose rein if space/he felt ok with it. Maybe light seat canter to get him more forward and relaxed. Would want to take the pressure off and be as calm as possible! But tbh after the previous round I'm sure you could have found something that could have justified a substitute on welfare grounds - they're hardly likely to force a rider to jump a horse that feels lame after a bad ride.

stupidstupider · 07/08/2021 20:01

Pentathlon has too much emphasis of the laser run that they introduced for an 'exciting finale'. It used to be 5 separate events, now the swimming, running & riding just get you a few seconds on the start line for the laser run.

Pentathlon needs better riders - they should be marked on style, not on their ability to be brave enough to point bloody good horses at straightforward fences. I haven't seen the riding this time, just the tears and tantrums and people falling off when they really shouldn't have.

It's not good enough to choose good runners & swimmers and then train them to fence, shoot & ride. When pentathlon evolved it was a true equestrian sport with riders adding to their skill in the saddle. It needs to go back to it's roots and stop being the hideous freak show that it is now.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 07/08/2021 20:15

Gosh. I’m sure Kate and Jo will be delighted to be called freaks.

GibbsGibbsGibbs · 07/08/2021 20:21

Apparently the rules say that she could have gotten a different horse if the one attributed to her had previously refused four times. As it "only" refused three times before and a vet declared it fit, she wasn't given a choice - which wasn't fair on her or the horse.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 07/08/2021 20:25

They said yesterday she could have chosen a different horse but decided against.