How do they choose the horses for Modern Pentathlon?

[DazzlePaintedBattlePants]

Just watched the German competitor leave the arena in tears at the Tokyo Olympics after a fairly horrific showjumping round, where the horse was being a complete sod. I’m fairly sure the horses are assigned randomly to the competitors but where do they come from? Do the organisers phone up their mates and ask for the stroppiest horses going?

I get that horsemanship is obviously the important skill to demonstrate but the horses are a fairly large confounding variable😂

It was amazing watching the horses - it was like my jumping lessons just over bigger fences (but similar relative to the scope of the horses). It looked like if you could ride in a sensible rhythm into a half decent contact you'd get around with 1 or 2 down so long as you didn't get ahead of the movement or drop the contact in front of the fence. If the stride was a bit off the horse would sort it so long as you weren't in the way (but weight on feet because they have scope to burn). The ones that went wrong were either consistently out of balance, not really riding forward or balancing on the reins rather than properly balanced over their feet. The penultimate line needed riding (away from collecting ring, vertical to treble combination), but you would hope a coach would be able to teach that with regular lessons.

It looked like average riding school horses (who could jump 1m with an instructor type) taking pupils around a 50-60cm course - if you kept getting it wrong they lost their trust in you but they forgave the odd duff stride/ iffy line!

But for the German girl I thought the picture was generally better than it has been in the past.

I thought the South Korean men were very nice riders.

Yes that’s true @Bryonyshcmyony plus “vast majority” was hyperbole by me, because I was cranky about the treatment of poor old Saint Boy and some other stuff I’ve seen lately - besides which, comments here that he wasn’t really being hit very hard didn’t help. Glad to see the UIPM has committed to a review.

My children are in PC and compete in tetrathlons (though the ridden phase is mostly XC) and we have quite a few members that have represented team GB in the modern Pentathlon.

I had no idea however until the last week or so how little some of these Olympians train (equestrian) or ride in general. It is hard to get on another horse and get to grips with how it’s striding, contact works in 20 minutes ahead of a meaty course but it’s almost impossible if your riding skills and experience are minimal, hence how awful some of the rounds were!

I couldn’t access Tokyo’s footage for a few days so ended to watching the London 2012 footage of the ladies ride, which was definitely no better but I found the English explained quite well why the athletes from European countries UK, Ireland etc always seem to come out better as access to riding and horses in general is easier from a young age and of course so many of the athletes have come up through PC where riding as always been there 1st discipline and at good level where fairness to horse is expected opposed to some of the other competitors who had openly said it had been an after thought as they wanted to try something “a bit different”

*sorry that should say English commentator.

Watching this year's competition I would not say the European riders were universally the best. The Korean riders, for example, were very gentle with their horses.

@iamtopazmortmain

Watching this year's competition I would not say the European riders were universally the best. The Korean riders, for example, were very gentle with their horses.

The Korean men were the best riders I thought. Jamie Cooke for GB wasn't great at all.

Perhaps it's time to lose this part of the event? It has been in the Olympics since 1912 and the world championships have been held annually since 1949. I don't think the word Modern can be applied anymore. Modern horse training considers the welfare of the horse, something that has changed since 1949. To take an animal and give it a rider that it doesn't know or trust, that is has no training experience with and ask it to perform on the world stage where team pressure is huge for the rider, is not kind. It is also dangerous for the rider. There is no partnership or care for the animal, it isn't owned or cared for by the team. There is no relationship just the need to use it like a bike or a gun to win a medal. It is time to move on remove this outdated sport. If it is based on a military need to grab a random horse and ride to safety then that rider will have had no consideration for the horse and ridden the life out of it to save his own, quite understandably. Time to make a change, perhaps this might help to bring it about.

@Bryonyshcmyony

That seems a bit unfair if they really do get a naughty horse, but maybe it will improve things. I doubt it.

It wasn't a naughty horse. It was quite clearly a nervous, frightened, confused and in pain horse. For him to start going forwards and actually try to jump says a lot about it's honesty and genuine nature.

She was hanging onto his mouth very hard, with a severe bit in, and then kicking him int he ribs with spurs on. For those of you who don't ride, it's the equivalent of pressing on the accelerator of a car with the handbrake on. All you're going to do is Rev the engine without going anywhere. Eventually the engine will smoke, which is basically what the horse was doing. Sweating up and looking bloody terrified. When she finally took the handbrake off (after whipping and the trainer punching the horse), she caught him in the mouth before every fence. Essentially putting the handbrake back on just as the horse needed the release of his neck to stretch out over the fence. If I was the horse, would have given up a long time before the actual end of the round as it was never going to end well.

I feel like if they changed the horse section to equitation that might work better? Like you’re judged not on the number of fences down but on your skill and technique. Some of the riders were TERRIBLE but on schoolmasters who just popped them over fences. Other horses needed actual riding. And some riders (like the Irish girl) were great but had issues with their horses through no fault of their own.

I would not have faulted that horse for throwing that woman off his back. She was carrying on like an absolute brat.

There is an element of chance in every sport, she needs to grow up and show some dignity and sportsmanship when things don't go her way. Not abuse that poor horse because she wanted a prize.

Disgusting to watch.

Some of the horses were very, unforgiving if you don't like the word naughty. The Irish girl was a case in point

Equitation or a dressage test would be hella boring to watch and they already struggle with viewing figures

(I agree they should drop it altogether tbh)

@JayAlfredPrufrock

If it had been my horse I would have decked the German rider.

But what are the chances of the female and male British gold medal winners drawing the same horse?

Serendipity

The numerical chance would have been 1/(number of horses in the pool).

But depending on the order they were drawn, at the point it was drawn it could have been a higher chance because lots of horses would already have gone.

I thought for a moment you were saying the horse was called Serendipity, which would have been quite something!

Oh that would have been lovely.

Heard a good idea that they should include a mark for style.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

Heard a good idea that they should include a mark for style.

no, they should stop the round and eliminate the rider at the first hint of abuse or misuse of the aids

They should have a whip rule as they do in other sports. A style mark wouldn't work and would be even more controversial

@FlabbyGodMother

Perhaps it's time to lose this part of the event? It has been in the Olympics since 1912 and the world championships have been held annually since 1949. I don't think the word Modern can be applied anymore. Modern horse training considers the welfare of the horse, something that has changed since 1949. To take an animal and give it a rider that it doesn't know or trust, that is has no training experience with and ask it to perform on the world stage where team pressure is huge for the rider, is not kind. It is also dangerous for the rider. There is no partnership or care for the animal, it isn't owned or cared for by the team. There is no relationship just the need to use it like a bike or a gun to win a medal. It is time to move on remove this outdated sport. If it is based on a military need to grab a random horse and ride to safety then that rider will have had no consideration for the horse and ridden the life out of it to save his own, quite understandably. Time to make a change, perhaps this might help to bring it about.

I think it's the entire point of the event - and that's what has been lost from it.

Having the horsemanship at the beginning means that everybody will have to be a better rider because if you can run, shoot at targets, go for a swim, wave an épée around, good for you, you're fit and able to learn to chuck your body round in different ways. But to be a rider, you also need the ability to stay calm and project that composure and confidence in a way that a horse, any horse, can understand.

Which was exactly why it was developed - no point in being able to defeat an enemy in single combat if you're going to be sat ten foot from the enemy encampment when the next watch realise the guards have been killed, wailing and crying because the mean old pony has thought 'who is this dickhead and what the hell do they want me to do?'

Most of the events are a plain and simple strong, fast, balance, moving oneself and one's allocated pointy or heavy things competition. This is doing things for a purpose and still being the best at it.

A style mark would stop the abuse of the horse.

And they have marks for style in other events without controversy.

Lots of the male riders rode perfectly well. They just need to tighten up the riding training

Either London or Beijing the male riders were much worse than the women... So it has changed with riding being seen as more important for training than it was as there are probably very few other gains to be made!

I'd also like to think that I could learn to take a schoolmaster around a 1.10 to 1.20 track within a year, assuming I had access to suitable progressive teaching and lessons between 3 and 5 times a week. I'm 40 and moderately fit and have a spotty riding background with a fair few breaks due to lack of money, but was happy taking a RS horse around a course of jumps so long as they were within the horse's comfort zone after consistent weekly lessons for about 18 months solid (things like kids and Covid got in the way). I'd need the time to increase my comfort zone on the approach to bigger fences, which would come with lots of grid work and no stirrup work on the flat. So it should be possible for athletes capable of the rest of pentathlon to put the time in if they see the point...

Once you're past the basics riding would be fine as a recovery activity and should be as much of a priority as the other events.

Obviously psychologically it's tougher to see the direct correlation between riding training and improved results than it is with a timed thing like swimming and running and measurable physiological data like recovery times (improve the shoot).

Same kind of goes for fencing - 1 hit epee can be a bit random (to be fair standard Epee is the least predictable of the fencing weapons!) so there is probably less to gain from a lot of fencing training once you can execute a few moves well. The added sophistication required to win over 15 at the top level is about having more options once your opponent has worked out your plan A!

London horse’s have been mentioned & also a lot of speculation about how they are trained.
I knew 3 pentathlon horses from 2012. One was a rather plain mare that was the mount of The Surrey Union Master. Terrific jumper & I think went pretty much clear every time. Another was a 17h2” ISH, good jumper but needed a lot of leg, and that is defo not the same as spurs! One was a hunter class winner. All horses had a team that kept them tuned up throughout the competition.
I thought the Tokyo horses were mostly good and I saw some reasonable rounds -I have seen much worse at unaffiliated
SJ!
Knowing how they maintain the horses during the Olympics, something wet seriously wrong for St Boy. Ultimately this was a display of poor sportsmanship

Feduperika

I wonder if the same horses will be used for the men tomorrow.

chocolateorangeinhaler
"What does your statement imply?

She rode like crap and got the result she got, it's the olympics ffs. if she could ride well she wouldn't have had such a disaster.

I don't understand why you want to bring the sex of the rider into the debate."
Oh wow just seen this above. Just shows how easy it is to be misunderstood.
I was asking whether the same horses get used again and described the event where they might be, ie the men's the next day. I was literally wondering whether the next day's competitors would be sussing out the horses and working out which ones to accept or reject. I was hoping also that the upset horse wouldn't have to be put through it again, thinking that in that heat it wasn't reasonable to compete on 2 successive days.