How do they choose the horses for Modern Pentathlon?

[DazzlePaintedBattlePants]

Just watched the German competitor leave the arena in tears at the Tokyo Olympics after a fairly horrific showjumping round, where the horse was being a complete sod. I’m fairly sure the horses are assigned randomly to the competitors but where do they come from? Do the organisers phone up their mates and ask for the stroppiest horses going?

I get that horsemanship is obviously the important skill to demonstrate but the horses are a fairly large confounding variable😂

I believe that having seen the horse refusing with the Russian rider the German team did have the option of selecting another horse - they chose not to. Several of the men opted to change to the reserve horse today.

@Bryonyshcmyony

I remember a child whacking and whacking a pony many years ago. The trainer stepped into the ring, grabbed the whip off her, snapped it over her knee and said if I ever see you using a whip again I will use it on you. 😅

My grandfather was born in 1899 and worked as a stable hand from the age of 12. He was tiny and post WWI (when he was in France with the horses from age 16), he got a job in a racing stables with a couple other young men who had just come back from war.

One of the jockeys was a whip the animal when you're not good enough type. One day, he lost a race and expressed his displeasure with the horse at great length.

The jockey had an accident round the back of the stables that night. The accident left him unable to ride, wear clothes or sit on a saddle for a long time. Or strangely, hold a whip.

They were asked if they'd heard anything by the boss - the lads answered that they knew nothing about it, and maybe the jockey had fallen over and a box of whips had fallen on him. The boss didn't say anything else other than 'I see'.

My GDad was the gentlest man. I remember clearly how this tiny, tiny softly spoken man's face changed when he recalled the jockey's 'accident'.

100 years and some people still haven't got the idea.

FFS!! And despite all that, and knowing he was traumatised they didn’t pull him? They stuck another rider in him and sent him out? Serious questions need to be asked about horse welfare at the Olympics

which if you read the thread, a lot of us are saying. The horse was 'traumatised' at the hands of a poor rider, then put out to do it again.

It doesn't excuse Annika behaviour though. the horse was distressed and she added to it.

the level of riding skill to complete in this competition needs to higher, or don't use horses.

As godmum56 has posted the use of some of the bits and spurs need taking out too, as a lot of the riders have no understanding on how to use them and harm they inflict on their mounts by jabbing at the bit all the way round.

@iamtopazmortmain

I believe that having seen the horse refusing with the Russian rider the German team did have the option of selecting another horse - they chose not to. Several of the men opted to change to the reserve horse today.

No you can't change horses half way through the competition having seen how it went with a previous rider.

You can change to a "pool" horse before the comp has started.

I watched the women's riding live yesterday and, having never watched the modern pentathlon before, was absolutely at the low standard and the way many of the competitors appeared to treat the horses simply as a piece of equipment.
As for the German competitor, I have never seen such behaviour!!! Having a full blown tantrum in the arena absolutely shocking, that poor horse.

My children have been in Pony Club for many, many years from tiny tots up to competitive level and it is drilled in to them from day 1 that the horse's welfare comes first. Misuse of whip or spurs is taken extremely seriously indeed. Yes, everyone has a bad day sometimes, it is part and parcel of being with horses, there may be frustration, disappointment, maybe even private tears, but you never, ever, EVER take it out on the horse.

Was Kate French (the GBR gold medal winner) a past Pony Club tetrathlete? You could tell as soon as she came in the ring that she did actually know how to ride and understood horses and her result speaks for itself!

which if you read the thread, a lot of us are saying. The horse was 'traumatised' at the hands of a poor rider, then put out to do it again.

I wasn’t commenting to challenge what anyone was saying here. I was really just posting my thoughts ‘out loud’ so to speak, after reading the guardian article posted almost immediately before my post.

Yes she did PC tet

yes Kate French came via the Pony Club

i hope they dont find any sabotage as the German was in gold position before this.

@AbsolutelyPatsy

i hope they dont find any sabotage as the German was in gold position before this.

🤣🤣🤣

She sabotaged herself.

sorry MotionActivatedDog it wasn't really aimed at you more AbsolutelyPatsy who agreed with you, but seemed to think we are all here just to have a go at a German rider.

@MotionActivatedDog "FFS!! And despite all that, and knowing he was traumatised they didn’t pull him? They stuck another rider in him and sent him out? Serious questions need to be asked about horse welfare at the Olympics."

I think it is unfair to tar all equestrian sport welfare at the olympics with the same brush.

The UIPM, who govern the pentathlon, have some serious questions to answer about what has occurred and the standard of horsemanship. I cannot comment on the vet and welfare checks that occur for the horses as I don't know what is in place.

However, The FEI, who govern all other equestrian sports in the olympics, have exceptionally high welfare standards. There are vet checks before the horses are allowed to compete, sometimes for weeks prior, strict checks immediately after the horses have finished competing. In this Olympics, competitors have been eliminated for horses not being deemed 110% to compete, competitors have chosen to withdraw at different stages of the competition as it was not in the best interest of the horse.

I personally don't think the two are comparable.

@CrotchetyQuaver

That horse was clearly very upset and if they had done more preparation with their riding, then things might have been a lot different. That German rider was shameful to watch. Yes the horse was not cooperating, but crying your way round whipping it and jabbing it with your spurs was absolutely not the way to go. Absolutely disgraceful. That not go down well at a grassroots riding event in the UK, let alone an international event with a global audience. Nothing that couldn't have been avoided with better preparation riding many different horses several times a week which surely should be standard preparation for someone hoping to be selected for MP at the olympics? If that had been my daughter I would be absolutely ashamed of her. And the trainers been kicked out and sent home in disgrace for punching the horse which is at least something.

so why did the judges not stop her mid round and eliminate her?

One of the stories in the background is Elodie Clouvel (FRA) who rode a very decent looking round this time. In 2021 she was a weak rider and fell off in the ride from being in the lead - she was a recent convert from swimming at the time. She has clearly taken that experience and learned from it to become a competent sympathetic rider.

I thought the horses this time (plus Rio) were much better than London and Beijing. Part of that is that the UK lacks many high end riding clubs but there are riding clubs with suitable horses in both Tokyo and Rio.

Most of the horses were lovely! Bless them

I think it is unfair to tar all equestrian sport welfare at the olympics with the same brush.

I didn’t tar anyone with any brush, that implies a conclusion has been drawn. I said serious questions need to be asked about horse welfare. Which they do- clearly.

Serious welfare issues do need to be addressed I completely agree. But it isn't welfare at the olympics as a whole. It's very specific to the pentathlon.

Was the same horse used today for the men?

It’s part of the Olympics so I think looking into the welfare of all horses at the Olympics is only responsible. It would be an oversight to assume all was well other than in this category. What harm does investigating do?

@CovidCorvid

Was the same horse used today for the men?

Interestingly, no. In fact the horses were far better. It was ever thus!

@MotionActivatedDog

It’s part of the Olympics so I think looking into the welfare of all horses at the Olympics is only responsible. It would be an oversight to assume all was well other than in this category. What harm does investigating do?

Because the other horse events come under the auspices of the FEI, so are already under scrutiny and strict welfare rules. This is why the cooling fans etc were supplied for the dressage/showjumping/event horses, but not for the pentathlete horses. There are rules about Whips spurs etc under FEI. If there were any welfare concerns then they can be reported to both the Olympic committee and the FEI.

pentathlon should also run their horse section under FEI rules IMo

That’s interesting that pentathlon isn’t governed by the same rules as the other equine disciplines. Do you know what the reason for that is?

I would think, from the way she was in tears at the beginning, she'd tried to make friends with him in the 20 minutes before and he wasn't having any of it. She looked panicky — she knew that he wasn't going to jump for her.

I think the first round probably upset him a lot, and to be honest, I'm not sure how well he'd have jumped for anybody else. I don't think it was fair on either of them really.

I don't know what the German coach was thinking though!

@MotionActivatedDog

That’s interesting that pentathlon isn’t governed by the same rules as the other equine disciplines. Do you know what the reason for that is?

I don't know what if any rules UIPM have for horse welfare in pentathlon but I'm sure you can Google it.

No idea why they don't work to FEI rules but they should.

She should have tried giving him pats and encouragement and if that didn't work, jumping off and leading him back to the collecting ring

She'd be a heroine!