Help! Pony rearing in horse box.

[Spero]

hello, non-horsey mother of horse mad child here. You were all very helpful a few years back when my daughter started off on her adventures by loaning a pony - we have now got to the stage where she has her own pony and I have a 3.5 tonne van to transport him.

we got him a few weeks ago and have taken him out a few times and its been fine. he was a bit tricky to load on one occasion but perfectly fine once we got him in.

however today we tried to load him to go to a show and once he was in he started rearing up and got his front legs over the bar and then his hoof stuck in a hay net which was frankly terrifying. We gave up on the show idea but tried again this afternoon but he did it again. He calmed down as soon as we went in the back with him; it seems to be the prospect of us leaving him alone in the back that started him off.

My daughter is now in floods of tears saying that if a pony is like this, there is no cure, they will never be able to travel, there is nothing that can be done etc. I have done a bit of googling and read frankly scarey things about hobbling which I don't think I want to try and sound dangerous in themselves.

so I just thought I would ask if anyone had any tips or suggestions. Part of the problem may be that he is just so new, we don't know his quirks yet. I have messaged his previous owner and asked if she has any tips but I don't think she ever travelled with him on his own.

Apologies if I've missed this, but how well does he travel forwards/herringbone. How did previous owners travel him? Is he used to company? Can you borrow a lorry and a trailer and see which he prefers?

Thanks for the advice fucksgiven but it's simply impossible. The cost of full supervised livery would be in region of £500 a month. We will just have to do the best we can. If it doesn't work out - well, hard lesson learned.

Popcorn - he traveled in a lorry I think. Can't borrow anything else sadly as I am disabled and can only drive automatics, hence no trailer as car not bit enough!

Serious question, Spero. How do you intend to "get rid of" (your words) a pony that will not load? Assuming you try to sell him, how will you phrase the advert? If a buyer cannot load and travel the horse, you're limited to selling him to people within hacking distance. Either that, or passing him onto a dealer, also within hacking distance, for them to sell. You could just not mention the issue, but then what happens when a buyer tries to load him?

Fucksgiven does have a point, I think. It's a lot of pressure to look after a pony in this situation, even for an apparently knowledgeable 13 year old. The video I linked to was more for you to watch rather than your DD as it isn't really aimed at children and talks in quite complex terms. I linked to it more for you to watch and see if it made sense to you.

I would try to take the pressure off this situation. Can your DD hack out with friends from her current yard? Is there somewhere she can school? Would it actually be cheaper overall to move the pony somewhere where she can do these things without having to travel? Otherwise you have this looming January deadline combined with an anxious teenager and an anxious pony. You might find a yard with experienced people that does assisted livery - I do this and it is substantially cheaper than full livery but you still get help. Or full livery during the week and DIY at weekends.

The pony loaded and travelled when you bought him. I know you're doing your best for him. But, getting "rid of" him if you then find he won't travel could mean he ends up in a downward spiral of bad homes, all because of something that an experienced adult could have nipped in the bud before it became an issue.

£500 a month for full livery, no riding?! That’s insane!

How old is this pony? Did you see a competition record (that confirms the pony was regularly transported to shows)? Are you in touch with the previous owners to ask them what they loaded him in and if they ever had any issues?

Handling and riding the pony before you load can also help put him in a workman like mood.

How is your DD getting on with him in other respects? Is she having regular lessons?

I've just re-read your posts @Spero and noticed the pony club bit. Have you spoken to your dc and/or the instructors? Is he known to them? I'm sure if you ask the members will be able to pop round with a lorry and a trailer - you might find that he simply doesn't like travelling backwards or doesn't like the noise in the van. Selling the van is easier than selling the pony - I'm assuming everything else is going well?

The previous owners should be easily found in your passport so have a ring round and ask about any previous problems.

We know the previous owners and have talked to them. I think the problem is that they used force to make him do things and we can't/won't replicate it. Pony was regularly transported but in lorry with others. We haven't been able to go to pony club for ages because previous pony lame so I feel as if we have lost touch; we need to get back into the meetings and I am sure there are people there we could ask for help.

yes I know the situation is not ideal. Life is not ideal. I wish I could hack out with my daughter but I can't. I can't ride. I find it difficult to walk about the yard. I do what I can. I do my best. that is all we can do.

if he won't load or travel by January I will sell him or put him out to retirement livery, whatever I need to do. I won't be able to keep him if he doesn't travel. It will be more stress on my daughter having an open ended timetable - she has already been through this last year. it took six months of hard work to get her other pony fit. She can't face that again.

dismiss her as a spoilt brat if you like - I have seen how hard she worked and how desperately disappointed she has been.

Sorry if this is too obvious, but how does he cope alone elsewhere? We've had to get a pony to keep ours company. He travels OK alone but won't stand in the trailer and gets quite upset just tied up alone at home and we can't tie him to the trailer either. He needs to have a person or equine in view or a jockey on board. Is there anywhere on your yard that he can be truly alone, it might not even be a travelling thing.

You're never going to get the perfect pony, ours is bloody amazing until you have to hold him for 4 hours between classes at a show..... He needs to do what you want him to. There's nothing wrong with selling him to a happy hacker who never travels - horses for courses and all that.

When you say 'retirement livery' what do you have in mind?

If you think part of the issue is being alone, might be worth trying a mirror? You can buy plastic sheet thingies super cheap on eBay and just stick it up in the Lorry.
Whatever you do though, get some weave grills or something for the Lorry. I have two friends who have had disasters with horses ( that were usually good travellers) deciding to jump out. One of them I witnessed as we were driving behind them !
Change is possible. We had a pony who behaved in a similar way, after one session with a professional and some time spent practicing, he was never a problem again ( and I was the so sceptical about using a nh person )

When you say 'retirement livery' what do you have in mind?

What do you think he/she means? Tethering on a grass verge? Dumping on the allotments? Why does it matter? It's not the issue for which help and advice is being sought. Are you going to offer it a home?

You may think you're trying to be kind, but you're sounding judgemental and harsh and all you seem to be doing is saying how crap the daughter is. Either you know them and you need to hotfoot it round to their yard and offer practical hands on help, or you're sitting at home making wild assumptions about the people involved and it's not particularly helpful or nice to see.

Sounds like he is scared of traveling alone. How old is he? Mirrors are a great idea and also see if anyone from your yard would like a lift so you can get him used to your box with another pony in therefore for a while.

You can certainly sell him, I imagine he will sell very quickly for a lot less money than you bought him for to someone who will put in a bit of work getting him used to loading and resell him for a profit. However you would still need a new pony. It is quite difficult to find a good competition pony, most people have to compromise on something and even when you find it there is no guarantee that it will remain sound. I appreciate that your DD was disheartened by the experience of a sick pony for six months but this is very, very common.

How is this pony settling in in other ways? What does your instructor think of him?

If the pony is fine other than loading I think you could sell or loan him if things don't work out.

There are plenty of homes that don't travel their ponies except in exceptional circumstances.

Just be honest in your advert.

You wouldn't be the first people who just got the wrong pony. It's ok to move on. It doesn't have to be the end of the road. Heartbreaking though it can be.

If we can't keep him and no one else wants to buy him then I am told there are retirement liveries where he will Iive in a field. I think it unlikely I will be able to see him as he is a good pony. I appreciate it will be for much less than I bought him. That's life.

Apologies if you think I sound 'harsh' but I am more exasperated. I appreciate people are coming from a place with the best intentions but what I am hearing now is a lot of 'well you shouldn't have done THAT' and 'now what you need to do is X' - when X represents an option way beyond my price range or logistically impossible - i.e a livery an hours drive away for £500 a month.

I think I have now gained all I am going to gain from this thread.

I had hoped to post updates and seek further advice but it is clear to me that I won't get support but further criticism which is really unhelpful.

I am well aware of my responsibilities to all and every animal and of course I would be honest in any advert for sale. I am surprised that anyone would think I wouldn't be. As a lawyer I am very well aware of the consequences of misrepresentation but even if I wasn't a lawyer I think I have a handle on basic issues of fairness.

Thanks to all those who have helped constructively. I think MP was wonderful and I have booked him to come again on the 16th and we will take it from there.

Those of you who think you are 'helping' this pony by posting in the way that you have, you have not. You have simply driven another novice away when you might have been able to provide some help and guidance. I will seek my help and guidance elsewhere in future.

I mean 'unlikely to be able to sell'

the pony who went lame has gone to a lovely home with two other mares with a woman who just wants to hack out occasionally. She has sent us photos of him looking absolutely filthy from rolling and looking very relaxed. So I know there are those kind of homes for ponys that won't compete. And of course I will take the time to find a good home for him.

Sorry, it wasn't you OP that I was calling harsh - it was the poster (s) that are doing little to provide help and are just trying to pile the blame on you and/or your daughter. You are being responsible, you have realised that you have a problem and you are asking for advice, you just have to ignore the sneery nobbers that just keep saying that you're doing everything wrong.

Really hope you get the problem solved, please pop back if you do find the magic cure as we're all learning everyday, even if some of us already think we know it all.

Keep persevering with the trainer. You might surprised how quickly the pony adjusts given the right approach and by spring you might look back and wonder what you were worried about.

Please don't lose heart. You are doing all the right things. It just takes time to establish new habits. As I said up thread I use to spend at least a couple of months teaching my horses to load. Give yourself the winter to do the ground work and all will be fine by summer. Horses are creatures of habit and they like what they know. Slow and steady progress is always best.

Good luck with him OP. I hope it works out with him. If it doesn't, he will probably make someone a nice happy hacker. It's in his favour that he's 14.2 as it means he's big enough for smaller adults. I know in a few years when I'm looking for my retirement horse I'll want a small horse/ large pony to just hack around on.

How experienced are you in driving the box? Are you sure that the pony hasn't been upset on travel?
Whatever happens keep calm, and each time start with a relaxed approach.

Don't loose hope!!!! Firstly who have you had out to help? And if they are not helping try someone/something else. I am a reasonably experienced horse owner - but not so experienced at loading horses..... anyway then moved yards and my kids had two older Irish ponies - they got harder and harder to load. In one session Rob Leese had them sorted (we needed homework) - but it was ME who just was ever so slightly doing it wrong, whether it was them taking the piss or a loss of confidence in me because I wasn't doing it right, who knows? Look him up on Facebook.
He doesn't use force, he observed me , we did groundwork, getting them to listen to me and the kids - problem solved!
Unfortunately ponies are animals - and sometimes it's a couple of steps backwards before you move forwards.
Also often it's subtle things we are doing that is putting them backwards.

Hacking - can you walk with her? My daughters pony is kept on a different yard to mine and my sons (ours are at a more competition like yard) - so we can't hack with her - but we walk she might trot off and circle back to us - and Sunday morning is a family dog walk, with her on horseback....... also my son when he got his new pony, his trainer rose a mountain bike beside him on hack, until he knew that he was fine to be on horseback........

Also someone suggested a full livery situation- just consider that it doesn't have to be permanent situation - you could do training livery for 2 months, sort through these problems, and then move back to DIY.

My comments would be, as someone who worked with horses and taught riding for several years, in no particular order:

• There's a variety of ways and forms that helping a horse can take. It's not just riding. All handling is an opportunity to reinforce who's boss (and I don't mean by force and causing pain or anything like that, but at the end of the day, you HAVE to be the one in charge). This is a lot for a 13 year old. There are multiple different opportunities to handle the horse and reinforce that you can be trusted by them and that what you say, goes. Your daughter can do plenty of this - there's some good videos of horse trainers showing how to tell horses how to move, when to move - look them up on youtube
• Your daughter needs to understand that the on the ground, in hand and all forms of contact with the horse, not just riding, are legitimate and meaningful and part of horse ownership (although obviously I totally get her desire to ride - I would say though that I do think you've gone a bit full on with going out, even 'just' once a week, with a brand new horse. I would have spent time (with some knowledgeable support) doing a whole variety of activities to get to know the horse - turning out (ALWAYS she should wear a hat when doing this) - how does he behave, catching up - how does he behave, moving him around a stable - how does he behave, tying up - is he safe only to tie up in a stable or is he ok with being tied up on the yard or does he pull back - observe how he behaves, riding in a school - behaviour (does he try and run off, get strong, won't move, rears, bucks - you've not established any of this before going off to venues where he's tied up to the outside of a horse box in presumably a big field where it's exciting etc and you don't know if he's likely to pull back, snap his line and run off), has she ridden him with any other horses also along with her - is he a kicker, does he try to bite other horses - again, you don't know because you've skipped a whole set of things that it would have been really useful to have done before going off to do pony club events (even if she could have to them I'd say this still applies), hacking - how does he ride, is he road safe, what scares him, what routes will be suitable for him and which won't, does he bolt, how does he behave. I wouldn't be trying ANY shows or events until I'd spent some damn long time doing these types of activities first
• Nipping - as PPs have said could be for a number of reasons but picking on the 'stalliony' comment, some horses aren't gelded until a bit later than average - they can be biters because it's in the behavioural repertoire of a stallion to nip - you may be able to find out if he was gelded later than average which might give you insight into the why, potentially
• I think what you've done is just missed out, generally, a whole lot of stuff. I don't think there's been enough thought into the livery / yard situation such that your daughter can have company / supervision / support from someone you trust (not some random fellow owner who has all 'great advice and knowledge' but actually doesn't know what they're talking about) on hacks for example or sharing a lesson with another person and actually spending time getting to know her horse in a low stress environment, not at a show or event. I think you're just rushing a bit and your daughter does need to understand that she needs to do the groundwork (literally) before she can get on him because despite all you say about not treating him like a machine, I think your expectation has probably been a little bit too high and too soon of what he could and should be doing when you've only just got him... sorry, but I do. And part of that is you're not a horsey person yourself so I can only have these views because I worked with horses for years but it's not uncommon for people to offload ponies and horses that have all sorts of problems and remember a young girl who used to have Saturday riding lessons, got her first pony, when she hacked him out he literally reared up and tried to scrape her off against hedges with barbed wire in them. One step at a time OP and I think and end of January deadline is WAYYYYY too short! You need to rewind, go back to step 1 and do these other activities and forget about going out places in the box. Your deadline needs to start from today, not from when you got the pony. You got him A FEW WEEKS AGO - even with a 'perfect' horse that had no trouble loading or anything else, you should STILL be spending your first weeks doing nothing but getting to know him, his quirks etc. Start again.

Great post Doinit

Here here
Shocking way to speak about an animal you bought get rid of it you bought it!