Help! Pony rearing in horse box.

[Spero]

hello, non-horsey mother of horse mad child here. You were all very helpful a few years back when my daughter started off on her adventures by loaning a pony - we have now got to the stage where she has her own pony and I have a 3.5 tonne van to transport him.

we got him a few weeks ago and have taken him out a few times and its been fine. he was a bit tricky to load on one occasion but perfectly fine once we got him in.

however today we tried to load him to go to a show and once he was in he started rearing up and got his front legs over the bar and then his hoof stuck in a hay net which was frankly terrifying. We gave up on the show idea but tried again this afternoon but he did it again. He calmed down as soon as we went in the back with him; it seems to be the prospect of us leaving him alone in the back that started him off.

My daughter is now in floods of tears saying that if a pony is like this, there is no cure, they will never be able to travel, there is nothing that can be done etc. I have done a bit of googling and read frankly scarey things about hobbling which I don't think I want to try and sound dangerous in themselves.

so I just thought I would ask if anyone had any tips or suggestions. Part of the problem may be that he is just so new, we don't know his quirks yet. I have messaged his previous owner and asked if she has any tips but I don't think she ever travelled with him on his own.

You assume wrong Pleasedontdothat

In that case, shriek, I’d expect you to have a bit more sympathy for the OP

Right ok...been there already as you can see upthread. I was not the only one that viewed dd catastrophising like that. They don't 'all' do that. She metaphorically the her toys out the pram, she's 14, and it came over without sympathy for pony,purely self interest in never being able my to go to shows, never going work.

Explained all this before, let's not circle, pointless. Read other comments, it wasn't me that used that word.

Let it go

Basically though OP, if your dd is 14, and you know nothing about horses then you need to be on full livery, not diy. I'd suggest moving to a yard associated with a riding school so there is proper supervision

. Who's in charge of the horse? You or a child? Does your dd really have the knowledge and experience and emotional management to be in charge?

Not easy to give advice without seeing the box but has the pony got too much room from front to back? I don't want to sound rude but as you're not horsey yourself are you driving the box smoothly, taking corners slowly, changing gear at the right moment, giving yourself plenty if braking distance?
If the pony is one who likes to lean on the breast bar/ back wall to balance he may be worried if he needs to move back and forth to do so. Also you mention the partition being a bar, maybe he needs a deeper or full partition.
How old is he? My older horse, after years of trouble free travelling, started to scrabble on left hand corners. He was late teens by then, and just starting to be troubled with some stiffness in his joints.
We took the partition out and cross tied him so he could find his own balance spot , and if travelling two we put him on the left (front facing trailer) which solved it. I Googled the issue and found it common in horses with degenerative changes in the hocks.

She did not 'throw her toys out of the pram'.
She did not 'strop'.
She went very quiet
She cried long and hard at home.
She continued to treat the pony with patience and calmness.

Of course I don't want to sleep in a bloody van or a tent! I will hate it. But I will do it because I love my child and in the years to come I will look back on it and BE GLAD I DID.

How on earth you can read into anything I say what you do is beyond me, but we should probably just let it go as I assume you aren't going to move beyond your initial prejudice.

Yes, she's 13. No she isn't at a fully supervised livery. I can't afford that. We are where we are. I don't accept that doesn't mean we can't try to make it work and that is why I am cutting my trip to London short this weekend to meet the man recommended by Box of Delights.

My daughter has proved herself over the years about her sense and knowledge. What she doesn't have is physical strength to apply force to a horse - and neither of us would wish to have that kind of relationship with any animal. If this isn't going to work out we will consider our options. None of which will include hurting or frightening any animal.

Fair points Cherry tree but I have been driving the box for over a year now and take it very slow and carefully as i am not the most confident driver. But the problem here is the rearing before the box even moves. He doesn't seem to want to be on his own. It was fully serviced last month so I have assumed it isn't a problem with wonky structure, flat tyres etc.

I will see what the Horse Whisperer says! thanks very much again for the recommendation.

I mean this post to be helpful, so please try and take it in that spirit.

-a trip out every weekend, regardless of where and how close, can be too much for some horses. Some need time to settle in a home environment and know they are safe before being taken out. Depending on the horse, it may be too much, too soon.

-Very small things can unsettle horses sometimes. I am sure you are a super safe driver, but it can be as other posters said a change in light or a different smell. Horses are flight animals and they have to react to very small things. And sometimes, as pp have said, they are right.

-A 13yo is too young to have full responsibility for the pony. Therefore you need to educate yourself more. I don't wish to bring up the worst but if the pony e.g. Colics or goes lame, it is you who will be making the life or death decision potentially. The BHS run courses for new horse owners which could be a good starting point. I also think you should be the one talking to the previous owner, not your daughter.

-It's good you are getting in professional help. I also think having a good instructor you trust coming out regularly in the early stages is important. They may be able to pick up on and pre-empt any issues before you/your daughter spot them. Was an instructor involved in buying the pony?

Ultimately there needs to be an adult around who knows what they are doing, whether that's you, the yard owner or an instructor.

I get it Spero, I really do. Best of luck tomorrow.

I don’t think of him as a ‘whisperer’ tbh, just someone really experienced with problems with a nice way about him. It must have been 2002-2004 when he came to me, there was a lot of peddling of ‘horse whispering’ at that time, folk who marketed head collars with studs in them and all sorts of heavy handed rubbish. MP is very far removed from that sort of crap.

My trainer at that time was a very very experienced man, FBHS. It was him that recommended MP.

OP I think you're doing an amazing thing for your daughter. Keep asking questions on here. Go to lecture-demos if you can afford the time and money - some vets organise them. Seek expert help when you can. Tbh really horsey people can get it wrong - there's a lot I see amongst experienced people that I just don't agree with.

I don't blame your daughter for being disappointed both for herself and the pony, especially if she's had to nurse ponies through illness or injury before. I know adults who get frustrated when their horse is lame for a bit. There are very experienced adult horse owners around who think I'm nuts for retiring my boy. They think I should either ride him or shoot him. Whereas I know because I know him, I've talked to an excellent vet and I know from my experience that retirement is the best option. He's happy and healthy as he is, I'm happy and the old bugger deserves a good retirement.

People will always disagree in the horse world. But just keep putting the pony's welfare first and keep seeking knowledge and advice and you'll get there.

My daughter is now in floods of tears saying that if a pony is like this, there is no cure, they will never be able to travel, there is nothing that can be done etc these things? 'Never', 'no cure' floods of tears.

You didn't say she went quiet, that's a different picture, she reacted well around and pony at the time and the show idea was shelved.

Absolutely Calihummer

At your dds age I had loads of knowledge and experience around me, its vital. You asked for views, that was mine.
You will never win a battle of power over a horse, no matter what age.

I really hope tomorrow goes well for all.

Oh fgs just give it a rest Shriek - in what possible universe could your posts be construed as helpful?

Quite.

The boxofdelights, thank you SO much for Michael's details

He came today and within 15 minutes had Jim walking into the horse box and standing calmly. He said the problem seemed to be that Jim was used to loading into a lorry and expected to turn left and thought we had got it wrong by turning him to face backwards. He was also a bit 'bargy' but that was because (MP thought) he had been bullied before and was trying to exert some control.

My daughter tried a few times and it worked, he then stood patiently and munched some hay and got some love.

he has recommended loading him with a simple bridle and maybe getting some foam ear plugs as he was a bit spooked by a car going by.

This is stage one - we need to spend a few weeks on this then move up to stage two, which is tying him up and leaving him, then stage 3 is driving off.

MP thinks its fixable so we will go back again later and have another go. Then I will get MP back hopefully before the end of the year to look at stage 2.

It was honestly like magic.

My daughter is still a bit sad and tearful as she is worried this will be a replay of what happened last time and she said she would find it very hard to wait another year. I said whatever happens its not going to be a year; if we can't fix this by the end of January we will need to have another think about what we do.

MP commented that she was very calm with him, which is good, so all in all I am a lot happier than i was this time last week!

Thanks very much all.

Brilliant Spero, I have been thinking about you, he is just the nicest man isn’t he.

I am sure you will get on top of it, tell your DD well done.

Training tonight! Not quite as smooth as MP but we did it! Can already see daughter more confident.

Looking good OP. If you can help him through this you should find you and your daughter have a much stronger bond with him and more understanding of him. That will stand you in good stead in future if/ when you encounter other hiccoughs. It's a question of building trust and it's an amazing feeling when it happens.

Well done to both of you 😊

Well done, that’s great news.

I hope you don’t mind my saying but a hard hat and gloves are a very sensible precaution when loading any horse, but especially one that might behave unpredictably. Personally I wear a hat at all times when handling - unusual I know, but I have had more accidents handling than riding and on one occasion when the horse reared up and struck my head the hat saved me from potentially a very serious injury.

No of course I don't mind anyone giving me sensible advice! What I have minded on this thread is 'advice' given on the basis of untrue, unfair and unkind assumptions about mine and my child's motivations.

That is very sensible advice about the hard hat, and just goes to show the dangers of the non horsey person - it never even crossed my mind.

I am happy that we can carry on with Stage 1 without any dangerous behaviour from the pony but I think for Stage 2 we definitely need to carry out a more focused risk assessment and I think hat and even body protector will be part of that!

But my hope - possibly naive - is that we might crack it at Stage 1 if the rearing was just his only way to express his fear and confusion about the whole Stage 1 process which we were handling ineptly.

I’ve ridden since I was young and always wore a hat riding but it had never occurred to me to wear one when handling. Then I was debating hat wearing while riding on an HHO thread when someone said, well if you are so risk averse when riding do you wear a hat when handling when most accidents happen? That was a bit of a duh moment for me so I started wearing a hat when handling, two weeks later a young horse broke my hat when it came down on my head - head was fine, I walked away from that, but I think I would have had a fractured skull without the hat. Worn one ever since, and a few people have questioned it and even taken the piss out of me for it - weird people!

box here with a name change Spero (seasonal of course 😎).

Yes, I would wear a hat and gloves too and do for things like lungeing and loading.

I am really pleased for you, I was telling someone about this thread last night, another horsey person.

You have done something wonderful, getting someone who understands problems and can deal with them in the early stages. So many other folk might think the pony was taking the mickey and deal with him in a very different way when it looks like he just needs reassurance and time to get used to his new way of travelling.

If you think about it, you might have probably still have encountered this issue even if you had let him settle in for six months, because the travelling would always be very different for him.

But my hope - possibly naive - is that we might crack it at Stage 1 if the rearing was just his only way to express his fear and confusion about the whole Stage 1 process which we were handling ineptly.

Even if the problem seems to be cured at stage 1, I would continue through the stages as the trainer went through them with you. From the sounds of it he's experienced and knows what he's doing. He's assessed the situation. It will give the pony more time. If you're tempted to skip stages - and I'm not saying you would be - there's potential for the problem to recur and then you would have to go back over things. The pony would have further lost confidence and it would take even longer.

Personally I always wear gloves when loading or lunging and often when just leading. I've seen many people without gloves drop horses in situations where I've kept a hold with gloves on. And yy to the hat even at stage 1. For the few seconds it takes to put one on it's well worth it. And in this weather, keeps you warm and dry!

Thats untrue Spero and very uncharitable of you. I was not alone in this assessment of the situation. I am behind anyone thats trying to do the right thing by their pony, others have prefaced their advice with, I hope you don't mind, and please dont take this the wrong way because of your reaction.

I actually do hope that this ground work over the weekend helps you all and you can all get your dreams as a result.

I wish you well, and will bow out, good luck

Thank god for that.