Help! Pony rearing in horse box.

[Spero]

hello, non-horsey mother of horse mad child here. You were all very helpful a few years back when my daughter started off on her adventures by loaning a pony - we have now got to the stage where she has her own pony and I have a 3.5 tonne van to transport him.

we got him a few weeks ago and have taken him out a few times and its been fine. he was a bit tricky to load on one occasion but perfectly fine once we got him in.

however today we tried to load him to go to a show and once he was in he started rearing up and got his front legs over the bar and then his hoof stuck in a hay net which was frankly terrifying. We gave up on the show idea but tried again this afternoon but he did it again. He calmed down as soon as we went in the back with him; it seems to be the prospect of us leaving him alone in the back that started him off.

My daughter is now in floods of tears saying that if a pony is like this, there is no cure, they will never be able to travel, there is nothing that can be done etc. I have done a bit of googling and read frankly scarey things about hobbling which I don't think I want to try and sound dangerous in themselves.

so I just thought I would ask if anyone had any tips or suggestions. Part of the problem may be that he is just so new, we don't know his quirks yet. I have messaged his previous owner and asked if she has any tips but I don't think she ever travelled with him on his own.

I did not say I hope you don’t mind my saying... because I feared the OP’s reaction Shriek. I said it because it was unsolicited advice on a topic people have strong opinions on.

Same as is all that commented in the same vein...
Sorry?! Have I been rude to you Box for you to be offensive?

I am struggling to understand your post Shriek and I have no clue why you’d be offended by mine! It might be time to step away from the keyboard.

Your posting style is extremely pissy Shriek. Pissy about a mum who is doing the best for her teenage daughter who is disappointed.

You are incredibly ungenerous, not adding anything remotely positive, yet keep coming back like a terrier with a rat, and here you are again.

You have just been extremely rude box so I dont really think you have a leg to stand on after that pleasant selection of nastiness.

boboo not said I am offended by your post have I? Certainly don't feel offended.

Apologies Shriek I thought you meant me and had mistyped my username. Either way I do still think you should step away from the keyboard.

Shriek, more than one poster has commented on your posts. I am content with my level of rudeness.

so you thought you'd pile on was just music the other day how some turn MN into a playground. You be happy with your level of nasty. Go well

*musing

Calihummers - yes, I am not going to skip any stage. I just hope that if we do Stage 1 properly then this will show at Stage 2.

But we are getting MP back before we launch Stage 2; he said try stage 1 for a few weeks. Had another training session tonight as luckily I got back from Plymouth before 8pm! it was brilliant - she got him in the box by just standing on the side of the ramp!

He now seems fine to go to the right and stands patiently while she closes the partition. We will do this for about 15 minutes every day if possible, but its not always possible if I get sent far away for work.

Daughter seems a lot more positive and was being firm but not harsh. Its a fascinating process! I think the life lessons you must learn from managing a horse/pony are incredible and very transferable.

When you say it's not going to be a year, whatever happens if it's not fixed by the end of January you'll have another think do you mean, take the advice you already have rather than 'crack it at stage 1', seek to sell on the pony to someone else, or retire him?

I mean I will get rid of the pony Fucksgiven.

Sorry if that offends you but I am not an animal rescue charity. The pony was purchased so my daughter could ride him. That means he needs to load and he needs to travel. If he can do neither then I will sell him on.

But because I take my responsibilities to animals seriously I am now going to be spending a lot of money and a lot of time in the cold and dark trying to fix this problem. Training session 2 went well last night; I have the day off today so training session 3 will commence tonight.

But if I can't fix it, then I will solve it another way.

Horses love to bond and build trust with people so they look forward to spending time with humans if the experience is positive.

If you and your daughter take the pony and give it a lovely groom each time too then the pony will associate you with kind and positive experiences.

I have been rearing and bringing up youngsters all my life and the keys are kindness, positive reinforcement and patience as once they trust you the bond just carries on getting stronger with time.

Although this blog post simplesouthern.wordpress.com/2018/11/26/lessons-from-a-mule-6-if-you-give-a-mule-a-choice/ is about a mule, it is also about horses. It's very good not just on loading but also on building a relationship and the different kind of relationships you can have.

Yes, you can "break" a horse or mule to make it conform and do your bidding without question. Or you can build a partnership in which it has more choices. My personal experience is that if you build a relationship on trust, it's much more rewarding and satisfying. I also find that if it's based on trust, your horse is much more likely to go that extra mile for you.

One key thing to get from this - there was a reason the mule wouldn't load. Something had happened to her the owner was unaware of. I really don't think animals change their behaviour for no reason. There's always a reason, and it's your job to find out what it is.

Training session 3 has gone ok! he was a bit freaked out by a passing car so we are going to try the ear plugs suggested by MP.

He is going straight in and munching some hay and getting lots of pats and praise, which he seems to like. I am standing by watching anxiously and my daughter takes him in and out for 15 minutes and he is coming up to me and pushing me with his nose which I hope is a good sign! I give his nose a stroke and tell him he is a VERY good boy.

He was a bit bargy when she tried pulling the partition but soon calmed down.

Hopefully this will be the best thing that could have happened and they will get a good bond with each other.

Thank you for the blog link, will read it now!

Thanks, that was really good.

"So many things change when we start acting from compassion"

Yes, and that doesn't mean being soft and wishy washy with them. They do need clarity - they need to know what we expect of them. For me it's about understanding that actually they are co-operative herd animals and that by and large most of them actually like humans. We really couldn't do what we do with them otherwise. So if a pony is rearing up in a lorry and is reluctant to load, it's better to work out why rather than just tie them down until they behave - which your are doing.

One thing to bear in mind - horses are exquisitely sensitive when it comes to picking up on mood. But whereas you're thinking "I'm anxious because the pony doesn't load and this will upset my daughter and we want to compete and I want this fixed by the end of January" the pony is just thinking "that person I (want to) trust is anxious. Where's the wolf?" So do work on your own body language and mood. The calmer you can be, in general the calmer they are.

Sorry, to clarify the last sentence of the first paragraph, I mean you are taking the time to get to the bottom of the problem!

Not rtft so excuse me, glad to see you are getting help, loading issues are so frustrating. Had a bad loader once who would refuse to load away from home! Had to be hacked home 3 hours once , he improved with help from a horsemanship instructor.

Intelligent horsemanship group , run by Kelly Marks is good to follow on Facebook for advice and contacts.

Is floor of box ok? Floors aren’t necessarily checked during a service, so if you have mats, lift them and check underneath.

.are you aware 3.5 ton lorries are notorious for horses going over the rear bar and out the back door ? have a look st Hampshire animal rescue to see how common this is , for all your safety’s sake have a floor to ceiling barrier a horse can’t get over into the living at back.

Good luck.

OP, since you're not horsey, a word of warning about natural horsemanship such as that practised by Kelly Marks. The whole movement is controversial. Some of it is great, much of it less so. It is often portrayed as somehow kinder than traditional horsemanship because it supposedly mimics what horses do in nature. Unfortunately, those practising it are not always as wise as they seem. Unless you really know your stuff however it can be easy to be sucked in.

Marks uses a technique called "join up". For many in NH this is seen as crucial and as a great way to bond. However, you can get a horse to display join up behaviour with a radio controlled car i.e. the horse will seem to bond with the car.

Tread carefully. Negotiating the rights and wrongs of NH is complicated. If you've got a recommended trainer you trust, I would stick with that for now.

Fourth training session and daughter is sadly slipping into despondency again. Its looking good from where I am standing but she she says 'he doesn't want to be there' and keeps trying to bite her. Not I think in a really aggressive way, just has a munch on her sleeve.

however when he does this she is flicking him on the nose with the lead rope. This is what MP did - but only once or twice. There seemed to be quite a lot of this going on tonight and I am worried that this is not going to help.

MP was clear that he thought the pony was reacting out of resentment at being made to do something he didn't want to do or understand. But I can see you need to make it clear that attempts to bite aren't acceptable.

What do others do with a bitey pony??

We have to have a two day break now anyway as I will be at work and will try again on Saturday.

Spero you might find this Lucy Rees video useful She's an expert in equine behaviour. It's informative on stress generally but it might give an insight into the munching on her sleeve - it sounds to me like he may be seeking comfort rather than being aggressive, although without seeing it I can't say for sure.

If it's seeking comfort, flicking him on the nose will worsen the situation. And anything like that has to be exceptionally well timed anyway. I've had horses seek comfort in this way. If they're grabbing sleeve rather than flesh, they know what they're doing. It's a bit like us looking for a handhold, it's just they don't have hands. You said he also pushes his nose into you - so he is expressive with nose and mouth.

Where is his favourite scratchy or tickly spot? I find a wither rub or neck scratch before they get to the munching/ pushing stage gives them the physical reassurance before they have to ask for it. Some people regard that kind of asking as rude and will punish it. I think fair enough if you don't like being shoved, but at least try and understand where it's coming from and pre-empt it, rather than punish an expression of need.

Thank you! I will send the video to my daughter now. I don't think it is aggressive as he has come up to me and nuzzled and chomped on my sleeve, but more as if he is checking if I am a tasty treat if you see what I mean.

Sounds like a sign of stress. I have a horse who gets bitey when he is stressed, I just give him the lead rope to chew on and it helps him. Obviously be careful to keep fingers well out of the way when giving the lead rope.

Apologies if I missed it but is your DD trying any positive reinforcement when the pony loads? Clicker training is very effective for overcoming fear and stress.

This is why children have to be supervised by people who know what they are doing. I know you say your dd1 is knowledgeable but you can't know that unless you are knowledgeable.

I'm honestly not being mean, but your dd1 is too young to have a pony in this situation. I'd really recommend full livery at a good equestrian centre. Otherwise you'll end up with an even more remedial pony who no-one will take on.

I am sorry to be a voice of doom but give yourselves a proper chance. Gd's first pon had to be at full livery as I knew I was rusty and out of date, so I treated the cost as training for us as well as care. Im sorry, i really dont mean this unkindly.