Does this sound dodgy to you - buying ponies related.

[Callisto]

Hi all,

I'm currently looking for a first ridden for my 6yo DD as her perfect lead rein pony turns into a bit of a monster off the lead rein.

So I've been looking online - Horse Exchange, Horsemart etc, and I came across a website called Pony Ads. Had a look through and contacted someone about a likely sounding pony. Turns out the pony has sold, but the man 'always hears of good ponies' and asks what I am after and where I am. So I told him and he is about an hour away and will find me something 'for sure'. It all just sounds a bit odd - do you think he is a pikey? I don't mind pikey ponies (DD's is a pikey pony and has been brilliant) but it still makes me go .

What do all you wise ones think?

I think I'd be treading very carefully. Up here an hour away counts as local so you can usually find out about dealer-types by asking around, would that work where you are?

Don't like the word 'pikey' very much, I'd suspect that he's a dealer, possibly small scale/informal. Doesn't necessarily mean he's dodgy, but if he's not upfront about it I'd steer clear.

That said, we went to see a horse with a small scale dealer who all my instincts told me to steer clear of as he was similar to what you describe. The horse was lovely, he was hugley patient and helpful with GD and was willing for her to take the horse for a month, and to camp on trial (without me paying upfront) so for me he couldn't have been more genuine. The horse wasn't suitable for gd (15.2 TB, don't know what I was thinking of really) and he offered to look around for us. We ended up buying from a dealer who was recomended by someone on the yard

We've just bought DD (8) a 12hh SHP (purebred Sec B) having been to see him on Sunday and he measured in yesterday. This is to add to her heard of a Welsh Sec A and a Welsh Sec B (which does M&M FR) We bought him off a show producer and they always have lots of ponies coming through for sale either to be produced by them or to leave the yard. Just because they deal in ponies does not make them necessarily pikey whatever that means to you.

There are quite a few FR ponies coming up on Horsequest now (under FR Natives and also under FR SHP). What don't you like about them - I love looking at ponies for sale so giving your reasons may help me to pinpoint your requirements.

Have you also looked at classified sections of your local Pony Clubs?

Mind you not really a great time to buy because if people have kept them over the Winter they are usually going to keep them through until Summer unless of course their children have growth spurted which does happen.

Pikey = gypsy/wheeler dealer. It is just a term. Pikey pony = one that has been bred for no particular purpose and without worrying about bloodline, a bit of a mongrel.

He has got back to me and tells me he has a livery yard (I asked if he was a dealer) and so hears of ponies for sale. This is all via email btw. I have enquired about several and out of those found a couple I like.

I'll have a look on Horsequest, thanks.

Butkin - the problem with the HorseQuest ponies is that they are all too expensive. We have no interest in showing so I don't want a pony with amazing bloodlines. I just want a nice little pony 11.2hh-12.2hh, not too young, steady so that it gives DD confidence, friendly so she can handle it. Looks are immaterial really and the ponies on HorseQuest would be totally wasted on us.

Def look on pony club website. I know of two 12.2 saints for sale for under £1k each and both have done pc etc.

You are covered probably better with a dealer - alot seem pikey! More comeback if something goes wrong as they are a trader not a private buyer.

Also contact your local pony club district commissioners as they will know of ponies being outgrown before they come up for sale.

As to price - what price do you put on your child's safety?

Horsequest has plenty of suitable ponies (in FR Natives and First Ponies) for less than 2,000 pounds (often much less) and given the market I'd imagine a lot of people will take a huge drop on those prices (maybe 50%) to a good home.

I understand that you're not into showing but a pony which has been shown successfully will at least have a level of schooling which will your DD will enjoy.

With ponies you usually only get what you pay for.

I've bought 3 horses from dealers. The first was my horse of a lifetime - I bought him before I had children. I adored him and only parted with him reluctantly after 7 years when it became apparent I could only find the time for 2 kids OR a horse with a sense of humour, and I couldn't find anyone to buy the kids

The second one I actually went to see another horse, but she wasn't for me. The dealer asked me if I wanted to see another little horse she had, and he was exactly what I wanted. The third I can't say if he is as good as I hope he will be, but he is a little pony for my daughter bought from a dealer/riding school owner who has over 100 ponies, many of them for sale. I imagine she would offer you another if the one you called about was sold. This doesn't mean she is dodgy at all, it just means she has a lot of ponies for sale. So far this pony is fab!

Conversely I have bought only one horse from a private seller recently. Even with years of experience, and a sharp-eyed friend and an equestrian vet having a look at him too, I managed to buy a horse with scars on it's legs dyed to hide them and it was delivered to me sedated. Dodgier than any dodgy dealer I've come across!

I would not necessarily assume that a person who says they have sold a pony but may know of another one is dodgy. If they come up with something I would be inclined to go along but take a knowledgable friend with you.

What Butkin says about show ponies is true too. My friend and I have both bought show ponies for our children, although neither of us intends to do any real showing with them. It was simply that they were so nicely schooled and well behaved with children that we liked them. Showing is as much about performance and manners as it is about being pretty.

Pikey is a derogatory term for gypsies and other travelers. As such it is also used to mean 'dodgey' or 'unreliable'. Not a nice term at all.

The person you spoke to sounds like a dealer. Google their phone number to see what comes up and that should give you an idea of the type of ponies they sell and how many. Like all dealers there are good and bad ones so if you are interested int his one go in with your eyes open.

I must have given the wrong impression - I don't have anything against dealers at all, or pikeys . I agree that buying a horse is a mine field but luckily I am pretty knowlegeable and I have some pretty knowlegeable friends. I find it helps to be colour-blind too.

I take on board everything said, and completely understand about show ponies being well schooled. However, I'm not going to pay £3000 for a first ridden - even if that makes me an irresponsible mother. DD's current pony (who is fantastic on the lead rein, and would make a fantastic jumping/gymkana pony with a slightly bigger and more confident rider) cost me £170. So I don't necessarily agree that more £££ = safer pony, or that you necessarily get what you pay for.

Anyway, thanks as ever for all of the great feedback, opinions and advice and I shall keep you posted on my hunt for a new pony for DD. Though as soon as I made the decision to get her something else, her current pony has been behaving impeccably so we may end up keeping him anyway.

Not wanting to sound like I always disagree with Butkin, who always sounds lovely, but I have been behind the scenes of the show pony world a little, and I would be VERY wary, of buying out of a show yard. It is very common for the perfectly behaved show ring pony to be seriously ridden in, by an adult or teenager before I gets to the show ring. I went with a friend to HoYs with her LR pony, and watched it being warmed up, by a child for five minutes or so, in the collecting ring. It had arrived at the show, from the show yard, with a little mare, who was for sale, who was hammered around at flat out trot for nearly half an hour before it went into the ring, with a 4 yo on board. And this is not uncommon. I'd be much more inclined to buy through PC than to buy a pony with showing credentials!

Callisto, what does your pony actually do when you let it off of the lead?

Well, he know his own mind and can be a beast to get going in the school (unless I'm behind him with a lunge whip). He is too strong for DD, even though he is only 11hh, and just tends to do his own thing unless I'm right there. He is in a fulmer atm and I don't particularly want to bit up. But the worst is a rather amazing buck that he can put in (he can jump 2'6" easily). He has only done this once with DD on board, but it really shook her confidence. I do love him and really want to persevere, but not at the expence of putting DD off horses for ever. I'm planning to break him to drive which may help (he long reins like a dream and has had harness on and pulled a tyre with no probs) but I don't have anyone who is both small enough and competant/confident enough to school him regularly under saddle.

Hmmm. Dd had similar, with her first A, she did a big rocking horse impression on a regular basis, scaring her to death on a regular basis, and once making her nose bleed. We put her in coal and turned her out in the end. She also had it with her traditional Shetland, she bucks like a bastard, but funnily enough, dd enjoyed this! She had an entirely different outlook than on the A, she was determined together her under control, kept at it, and won. I was going to suggest that your dd persevered, but if she is scared, then that's no good!

Keep us posted Callisto - I too am keeping an eye out for a first ridden for my 5 year old DD. We had a lead rein 4 year old 11 hand which I sold because there was no point keeping him for her to walk and trot on the lead rein once or twice a week. Now she is riding another pony off the lead rein in the sand school once a week. But while LR and second ponies are everywhere the FR is elusive! Who are these tiny people that school these little ponies?? I am also at the prices! I had my own horse, an ex racehorse, for free!

We have 'found' a 1st pony,but his owners can't let him go yet because they can't find a replacement.

It is interesting to hear about your experience of show ponies Saggy.I've heard similar things.A producer contacted me about DD2[6] riding a show pony for her,apparently she sends ponies to HOYS and would keep the pony and we'd just go over with DD2 to ride it .It was a 40 minute trip each way,would mean that dpony wouldn't get ridden that day because I can't be in two places at once,and we've no desire to get into the show world,so I said no.My girls need to learn to be good working riders,they want to hunt and do cross country,we have loads of lovely riding here so need a pony at home.Plus they need to learn how to deal with your average stubborn/naughty/wilful pony because that is what they'll be riding while I'm paying. I also suspect,that because DD2 is small and cute,that they'd want her to go on a lead rein-good luck with that I can just imagine her reaction.

Mirage, what are the owners looking for? Maybe we can all look out for a pony for them, and then your dd can have the loan pony?

Annie they don't need to be that tiny, at a push, a welsh would carry up to 10 stone or so!
Mirage same here. Our ponies are a right motley crew! Dd has learned from bitter experience that they need a good seat and a firm hand! She is planning to take Ducky out hunting this year, she enjoys that much more than showing! She currently exercises a show pony for a friend. All the friend is interested in is the pony looking right. The other girl who rides for her has an absolutely appalling seat, but the owner is more worried that she gets the correct lead canter than that she actually sits properly and doesn't murder the pony's back!

"My girls need to learn to be good working riders" absolutely agree with this for my DD. And the only way you learn to be a good working rider is to ride all sorts in all conditions over all terrain. Obviously with a 6yo daughter I won't be sending her out in the driving rain on a Welsh mountain and riding a 3yo just yet...

Obviously with a six year old daughter I won't be sending her out in the driving rain on a welsh mountain and Riding a 3 year old just yet....

Is that bad then?

You made me smile Callisto.We've had driving icy rain here all day and it was nearly dark at 3.30pm.When I told DD1 that she wouldn't be riding today,she was bitterly disappointed.[I on the other hand,spent all morning getting soaked,so was glad that I wasn't going to spend the afternoon the same way].

The friend who babysat DD1 out hunting a week or so back was out today and said they were all asking her where DD1 was.

OlderyetWilder that is kind of you.The ponies I know they have tried so far have been all rounders between 12.2-13hh,I don't think they are bothered about it being a mare or gelding or age,as long as it can jump and do PC rallies.

I was going to wait until her 7th birthday Saggy.