Owing PPA time

[StrongTea22]

Posted on another thread in error!
I am contracted for 3.25 hours in adult education.

I’m an NQT and over 40 so not totally green.

For this contract I should teach for 2.30hours the remainder is PPA time

But, they’ve given me a 2 hour class and I only get 30 mins PPA time and my employers are banking the remainder of PPA time as time owed.

For classroom displays, teaching whatever…

I’m a bit fed up as I’ve just asked to drop my hours as I hate owing hours, I need to know my days and plan for that. I don’t want to be paid for it but it just changes the dynamics of being able to ask for anything when you constantly ‘owe’ your employers.

Done over your cpd hours? Can’t ask to be paid…you owe us!

Does anyone have any advice

Just to clarify, this time is being used for teaching.

I’m being asked to do additional sessions by way of repaying this time.

I have asked for a bit of clarity from my boss on how it’s calculated and I have asked for hours to be removed from my contract as I think it disempowers me as an employee.

I feel like it’s done as a punitive ‘you owe us’ which is an awful way to feel when you just want to come in and do your job.

I am part time, and this is only an element of my contract but one that is driving me nuts.

I’ve asked a friend and it’s obviously different if I am ‘under allocation’ so under in my teaching hours…but that would mean I ‘owe’ 30 minutes a week not the 55 I’m being told I owe.

I’m asking as I never get a straight answer or a calculation from my manager when I ask about HR questions. Which makes me itch as I used to work and just think it should be clear, especially for new staff on what expectations are.

Aren’t you meant to get 20% PPA as an ECT/NQT? If you teach for 3.25 hours, that’s 195 minutes. 20% of that is 39 minutes so I think half an hour a week is reasonable? It’s a very low number of teaching hours.

I get a set percentage and that’s across the board for where we work, I aren’t sure what the percentage works out and I’m not arguing over what I get-it’s generous.

It’s more paying it back as owed time because I’m down on allocated time of 30 minutes. They are basically combining my unused allocated time and the associated PPA

Also, it’s not my full contract and it’s not unusual for adult education.

Mine is a mix of accredited and unaccredited.

Also isn’t it 205 minutes? Maths isn’t my strong point especially when it’s time converted to 100’s!

3 hours = 3 x 60 = 180
0.25 is a quarter of an hour = 15 minutes.
Total is 195 minutes.10% = 19.5 x 2 = 39 minutes

You are therefore technically owed 9 minutes a week but personally, I think half an hour PPA a week for the low number of hours you teach, is reasonable.

Thanks for replying, what I’m trying to say is I know what my PPA is (sort of)

If I work 2 hours I get 30 minutes (maybe 35)

If I work 2 hours 30 I am get 55 minutes which takes me to 3:25 total contract

In total my contract is for 3 hours 25

My query is around the fact that I currently work 2 hours teaching and they are taking the outstanding ppa difference between 2 hours 30 whatever and 3 hours 25 as time owed?

Sorry if I’m not being clear. What I’m asking is the legality around them making me owe PPA time and getting me to teach with it

3 hours 25 is not my total teaching time. That comprises my PPA too.

What differs is the actual teaching down within that and the PPA attached as to whether I am given a 2 hour class or a 2 and a half hour class.

Also, been doing my maths wrong.

I calculated 0.25 as 25 minutes!

Not a quarter of an hour…gah!!

Ok so my contract is for 3 hours 15.

Right. So depending on whether I teach 2 hours or 2 and a half hours means a difference in PPA allocated

Really my contract should be for 2 hours teaching plus at wound 30 mins PPA

But they are holding me to ransom over the 30 minutes I’m not teaching and saying I owe the 30 minutes plus the 0.25…

I think! I don’t know how this has been calculated or from what or even if they can do this?

What the heck is 0.91 then in terms of time?

This hurts my head. Is it literally 91 minutes?

@StrongTea22

Thanks for replying, what I’m trying to say is I know what my PPA is (sort of)

If I work 2 hours I get 30 minutes (maybe 35)

If I work 2 hours 30 I am get 55 minutes which takes me to 3:25 total contract

In total my contract is for 3 hours 25

My query is around the fact that I currently work 2 hours teaching and they are taking the outstanding ppa difference between 2 hours 30 whatever and 3 hours 25 as time owed?

Sorry if I’m not being clear. What I’m asking is the legality around them making me owe PPA time and getting me to teach with it

I think you’re saying that you aren’t teaching enough and are getting too much PPA which they want you to owe? Is that right?

If your contract is 3.25, then you should be teaching for 2 hours and 45 minutes. Your PPA is 20% of the time you teach (not of your contracted hours) and so 20% of 2 and three quarter hours comes to 33 minutes. This means:
Teaching time = 2 and three quarter hours
PPA = 33 minutes.
Total time is 198 which equals 3 and a quarter hours (give or take a few minutes).

As a senior leader, I would say it’s up to your employer to direct you to the correct amount of teaching time each week. If they don’t, I don’t think it would be fair to expect you to suddenly teach extra time to pay them back.

Hi

Thank you for replying.

I am not teaching enough (short half an hour on a lesson) and instead of them taking just the remaining 45 mins PPA from the theoretical 2:30 teaching time, they are also including my short/down lesson time of 30 minutes as time owed.

And I agree, I’ve asked for my contract to be reduced to reflect what I actually teach so I am not in this position.

There is no weekly ask back expectation of mentoring for 30 mins which would be ok, just can you do this/that the other on days when I am not supposed to be working as a part time teacher.

It’s adult education and it’s SO different to schools, I have a HR team to contact and a UNion as this just seems punitive and unnecessary to enforce like this over months and months.

They certainly can’t expect you to work on days you are not contracted to work. That’s a no no.

So essentially this means, if I don’t have opportunity to do additional sessions when they are run, say at Easter, they accumulate. I’ll probably owe around 20 hours come July which is just too much for someone who has a 13 hour or something contract.

@Yellowmellow2

They certainly can’t expect you to work on days you are not contracted to work. That’s a no no.

In my contract it says I am expected to work over Monday to Friday, the college essentially runs Tues to Thurs to avoid bank holiday awkwardness with missed sessions.

I don’t know. I just feel like I’m being the awkward newbie who says yes to everything and then afterwards I’m just not sure that it’s right.

I don’t mind helping out, but it’s the expectation that I should have to because of these hours and on top of that a lack of clarity on what policy actually is.

For instance this week, we have mandatory attendance training on a day I don’t work and it’s totally messed my week up at home/life admin after two weeks at home with the kids, but I have to go as it’s classed as essential CPD. Not given the option.

I’m going in today and will see what is said, but I will just be made to feel like I’m being awkward.

Spoken to HR.

Basically annualised hours, so I’d owe them. I raised the issue of the distinction between PPA and teaching time and he said I needed to raise it with them.

Really need to join a union.

With them I mean, I had to raise it with my bosses.

This all sounds bonkers to me. They're not giving you enough hours to teach, which is on them. They can't just expect you to make up that time when it suits them, especially not if it mounts up over weeks/months. Is this 'time owed' even a thing? It sounds very dubious to me - if you left for example, they wouldn't be able to do anything about the time owing surely.

It’s an annualised hours contract. So as we are part of a council, they would need to be repaid at say the end of the year/if we left.

You are right though, it should be on them to produce that work, not me.

Equally it should be clear to staff what portion is teaching time and which is PPA. So I can say yay or nay or come up with something myself.

It is bonkers, it’s the difference between schools and post 16 Ed.

Previously we would have all been on PTHP and now we are on contracts, so it’s all blooming smoke and mirrors and you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours and I just like to be clear on my responsibilities and it feels hard when you are expected to go in on days off to teach/prepare and for training.

I am an NQT and they are being generous (reduced time table etc) but then this is used as you can’t claim for doing over your CPD as you were on a reduced time table…it just makes it contractually, vague.

I’m also and English teacher. Cannot believe I’ve posted such terrible writing 😬

Is all this hassle worth it for two hours of teaching a week? They essentially have put you on a zero hours contract if they can demand you're available on any day of the week. As an English teacher, your I'd be better off tutoring privately....

That’s a good point.

It’s part of a larger contract, this is just part of it.

Oh I see, what was discussed when you accepted the position? We're certain days/duties only discussed? Was it made clear that you might be needed on any days/for any duties? You could argue that the contract you have been given doesn't reflect what was agreed. After all, you could be unavailable with other commitments on your days off.