The Forty First Republic - Gav encourages parents to report schools to OFSTED

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You are most welcome to this school staff support thread to get us through stressful times. It is meant for school staff only – a sort of room of requirement. Baiters, haters, goaders, and bashers can jog on somewhere else.

If you are NOT staff and just have a general education query please start your own thread.

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Do not give the staffroom password just in case it attracts the wrong sort

Other requirements for staff room entry include the ability to find the staff room, the ability to find a clean mug in the staff room, knowledge of the photocopier codes, and the ability to sniff out where the booze is stashed - Thirsty Tuesdays, Fizz Fridays now in operation.

If you come with a stick to goad us then that is not allowed in the staffroom and you will receive a detention

@TheHoneyBadger

Totally get what you mean. Behind only in the sense of an arbitrarily drawn line in the sand.

Though at age I can really see where the inequity would come in between kids of parents like yourself who will keep up reading and phonics type skills and numeracy at home and those who won't. Then there's the impact of schools having to try and make up for that whilst kids who are on track do what? I guess prepare to differentiate across and even vaster gulf than every

At secondary it will be behaviour - I already saw it last term after the two weeks school was closed to our year 8s. Those who had done fuck all of the remote learning at home were quite proud of themselves and disrupting lessons where they didn't get what we were doing but refused to engage with me trying to help them and explain because they don't get it and they're not going to try and that's that. So instead of it being a catch up issue it becomes shitty behaviour and everyone's learning being impacted on.

They're not new behaviour problems in the sense these are the kids who had behaviour issues anyway and were under engaged already but it has amped up that behaviour and disengagement to the point where they're going to be hard to keep in the classroom.

I relate to this.

I had loads of issues with my Y9s at the start of this year- we were supposed to be recapping work from last year, and those who hadn't engaged at all over lockdown were hell bent on ruining it for everyone else- and 5 kids who are really hell bent on ruining a lesson can definitely do it.

When I started a new topic, and kept things really easy and allowed them to feel some success, behaviour definitely improved.

Obviously I sanctioned loads too, but for at least one of the boys it had no impact (partly because his dad is against after school detentions).

@TheHoneyBadger

Though, and I'm aware lurkers will be horrified, how we keep some of our kids in the classroom already I don't know and I don't think I can hand on heart say that being kept in the classroom really benefits them and it certainly doesn't benefit the other students and their ability to learn.

At some point we need to work out what the hell we do with these kids imo because it's just not fair on everyone else to be held back and stuck being an audience during their learning time to kids who consistently disrupt and at best are relatively contained but certainly not there to try and learn. It's like we have to pretend these kids don't exist and aren't wasting not only their own chance at an education but also hampering other peoples chances.

I appreciate this is the teaching equivalent of suggesting eugenics or something but there has to be an alternative to dealing with them and trying to help their life chances without damaging other people's.

This is all totally pertinent, HoneyBadger.

Interestingly, I'm seeing a repeat of what happened in lockdown one with a particular subset (different children as I'm comparing last year's year 7 and this, for example): the pretty silly and disruptive boys who REALLY like the status amongst their peers of being disruptive but who are really good kids at heart, are doing amazing and prompt work for me again. Like, the three who are the most in trouble in the whole year in class, and also a bit silly on Teams, are actually knuckling down and doing really good independent learning. They benefit so much more from NOT having an audience.

Agreed @honeybadger
I had 2 pupils last term who disrupted class to the point where I just gave up trying to teach that lesson a couple of times. We rarely managed to cover the content in a day due to excessive fidgeting, procrastinating and worse. Those chn have done nothing since remote learning started. They will be completely unmanageable whenever we get back to class.

I don't think I can hand on heart say that being kept in the classroom really benefits them and it certainly doesn't benefit the other students and their ability to learn.

Everyone I teach has for some reason failed at school. I hear many sad stories of why this is but the one that recurs the most is of being taught in groups with disruptive people. Typically “I wanted to work and learn and so did my friends and the teacher did her best but there were too many badly behaved people so we could never get anything done. Then the teacher left and we had a different teacher every week for the rest of Y11 and they just taught us the same things over and over again, so when I did my exams I had no idea about most of the questions.”
It’s heartbreaking.

@TheHoneyBadger

Though, and I'm aware lurkers will be horrified, how we keep some of our kids in the classroom already I don't know and I don't think I can hand on heart say that being kept in the classroom really benefits them and it certainly doesn't benefit the other students and their ability to learn.

At some point we need to work out what the hell we do with these kids imo because it's just not fair on everyone else to be held back and stuck being an audience during their learning time to kids who consistently disrupt and at best are relatively contained but certainly not there to try and learn. It's like we have to pretend these kids don't exist and aren't wasting not only their own chance at an education but also hampering other peoples chances.

I appreciate this is the teaching equivalent of suggesting eugenics or something but there has to be an alternative to dealing with them and trying to help their life chances without damaging other people's.

Well... indeed.

I was a SENCO until 2 years ago, and I don't think inclusion is the way forwards necessarily. For some, yes, but not as an across-the-board solution. I spend so much time scaffolding work for extreme ends of the spectrum, when really they'd just be better off in a class that has say, 10 kids and 2 adults, and they work on a different curriculum. We don't need to prepare all these kids at year 6 to be able to do x, y and z - we need to prepare these kids at age 18 to be a functioning part of society.

@TheHoneyBadger

Though, and I'm aware lurkers will be horrified, how we keep some of our kids in the classroom already I don't know and I don't think I can hand on heart say that being kept in the classroom really benefits them and it certainly doesn't benefit the other students and their ability to learn.

At some point we need to work out what the hell we do with these kids imo because it's just not fair on everyone else to be held back and stuck being an audience during their learning time to kids who consistently disrupt and at best are relatively contained but certainly not there to try and learn. It's like we have to pretend these kids don't exist and aren't wasting not only their own chance at an education but also hampering other peoples chances.

I appreciate this is the teaching equivalent of suggesting eugenics or something but there has to be an alternative to dealing with them and trying to help their life chances without damaging other people's.

This makes a lot of sense. I teach in a mixed ability school. Whilst I can see the benefits, I have to admit there’s no way I’d send my kids to a mixed ability school.

In some classes the behaviour is appalling, it isn’t fair on those kids who want to work. Plus it’s a nightmare stretching the brightest, whilst simultaneously supporting the weakest.

When our lot went back in Sept (year 3) we had some who had leapt on with reading and maths, but lots of behaviour issues. Minor stuff but annoying, they couldn't stop themselves from calling out during input, talking at the wrong time. Lots of fiddling about, not following instructions, low-level irritation.

Exactly the same. The low level disruptors had really upped the disruption. They are beginning to do this on Teams now too - I have had to change settings of the meetings. The year 3s have now missed a large important chunk of year 2, and a chunk of year 3 - so really, they are still in summer year 2 - emotionally/socially/attitude to worky. Apart from a couple of outliers, who will now probably be bored witless in school.

If I had had a child in my class last year, and known about the level of disruption, i'd have taken them out.

Oh, and just had a chat with my Head. She reckons we'll be out until after Easter.

Online parents evening tonight, fully booked from 3.30 to 6.30. For y11 and I can well imagine we will just be speculating about exams.

I feel for you going ahead with parents evenings in an information vacuum. I feel like my head would have cancelled that and done something with slt and parents instead. I may be overestimating her though like I did my bloody landlady.

Everyone I teach has for some reason failed at school. I hear many sad stories of why this is but the one that recurs the most is of being taught in groups with disruptive people. Typically “I wanted to work and learn and so did my friends and the teacher did her best but there were too many badly behaved people so we could never get anything done. Then the teacher left and we had a different teacher every week for the rest of Y11 and they just taught us the same things over and over again, so when I did my exams I had no idea about most of the questions

Yep. I'm afraid I now occasionally end up pretty much spelling this out. I've told kids in front of everyone that every student in the room has been sent to school to learn and get an education, that none of them have been sent to school in order to be an audience member for people who want to constantly disrupt and make the lesson all about them and that they are showing utter contempt for their classmates when they do this. I make a point of apologising to the kids who are working that they are being deprived of valuable learning time because their classmate has no respect for themselves or anyone else in the room.

I feel like a bit of a bully but sometimes it really needs spelling out and for them to have to face how selfish they're being.

We are getting better behaviour in mixed ability groups at my school...

So we would have been off today under normal circumstances, I feel cheated! Our KW/vulnerables were sent home, not due to covid but because of snow... (Lots and lots of snow)

I don't mind teaching mixed ability at all. I do mind having to include kids whose behaviour is totally inappropriate for the classroom.

Setting tends to mean that the poor kids who are genuinely low ability get stuck with those kids who aren't necessarily low ability but just awfully behaved and therefore get put in bottom set. It makes it near impossible for the low ability kids who want to learn to be able to get any education at all and they can end up just passively drifting along with their head down to try to avoid getting bullied by the nastiest kids who are in all of their lessons.

I don't think they need to be put in bottom set - I think there needs to be another option because the low ability kids need to be able to focus the most really.

There doesn't seem to be a point where we can say, no, this doesn't work, this child's behavior is totally unacceptable and they can't be in lessons ruining it for everyone else unless that changes dramatically. As opposed to go on report, go all through the report system, 'maybe' have a bit of time in IE then straight back and start again.

My class p5 just spent ages in chat slagging off Hancock...

Quite vicious!

I asked them what they thought of Gavin?

Guess what they said?

Dickhead? Twat?

A kids version of that that isn't swearing?

Nope!

A big ding

They were year 12s..

Last year at my school we had a class who were all 'struggling to access the curriculum' - not for academic reasons, but for SEMH reasons basically. The teacher did lots of social stuff and so on, and tiny bits of academic work. It was working for them, far fewer incidents of exclusion etc. Then covid.

Too young to remember some mother's do 'ave 'em then.

Hard one. Aren't you all posh down south? .
A scrotum?

I asked them what they thought of Gavin?

Gavin?

Who the fuck is Gavin?

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Last year at my school we had a class who were all 'struggling to access the curriculum' - not for academic reasons, but for SEMH reasons basically. The teacher did lots of social stuff and so on, and tiny bits of academic work. It was working for them, far fewer incidents of exclusion etc. Then covid.

I wouldn't even mind having that class for a lesson or two a week rule - I would rather that than deal with one or two of them in every class itms. At least you know what you're dealing with and you can cater to that and it isn't trashing lessons for kids who can and do want to access the curriculum.

I remember someone saying this in Science when I was there and we were had lots of kids with awful behaviour in year 11 - he was basically saying, 'let's put them all in one group, I'll even teach the buggers, but get them out of the classes where they're stopping others from learning'. It was a no go and he was looked at like he was a monster or dinosaur for suggesting it.

@noblegiraffe

I asked them what they thought of Gavin?

Gavin?

Who the fuck is Gavin?

I really hope it was this?

at who the fuck is Gavin? Makes a change from, where the fuck is Gavin?