UK schools could, and should, begin to reopen as soon as practicable after the initial wave of cases has passed through

[Otherrooms]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52180783

What do you make of this?

Schools could go back even whilst social distancing rules are still in place?

Have these people ever been in a school? School corridors/classrooms anyone?!

teachers have been very decently treated though all this, with far far higher rates of being off due self isolation or being allowed to classify as vulnerable even if outside the officially shielded group

Not quite sure what you mean?

My workplace is very substantially closed. I am therefore working full time from home - which is both in line with health guidelines for those in my position AND exactly what all of my colleagues not on this week's 'in school childcare' rota are doing.

If my workplace re-opens fully - then my question is whether I am required to go against the health guidelines (as strict social distancing will be impossible) and work there? Bearing in mind that other workplaces where social distancing isn't / cannot be maintained are being reported to the authorities right now, even if they do not have vulnerable workers?

I think she means we are a bunch of cosseted shirkers cant...

I think there seems to be an assumption by some that schools and the rest of society can only begin to return to normal once the threat from coronavirus has been largely eliminated for the most vulnerable. I'm not sure that we can afford to wait until then and that the repercussions of doing so would be absolutely horrific.

Ah! A nice buoyant economy over human life.

I think we can 'afford' to wait.

I was in school last week. Four staff and 9 children. Out in the playground it was nigh on impossible to keep them away from each other. We had racing games and balls, hoops and what have you, and kept telling them to space out, but as soon as we turned our backs they were huddled together again. One of the staff out was the head and still they kept forgetting. Good luck trying it with a school full.

@Otherrooms
A buoyant economy saves lives too. If our GDP falls below a certain level then more people will die from the impact of this than coronavirus itself. It's not an either or situation.

AndNoneforGretchenWieners
Thank you

We need schools and nurseries to reopen so our children can be properly educated and people can get back to work.

I think that the difficulty is in the way this suggests schools working normally.

We can open schools more fully than they are at the moment - for a few more pupils, a bit more of the time, with interruptions for cleaning / quarantine if a child or teacher is diagnosed with COVID.

This is not 'proper education'. Nor will it enable parents to go back to work normally. However, as part of a gradual relaxation once the virus is past its peak, yes, it is possible.

OR we can deliberately use schools re-opening as a planned means to infect more of the population - ie to create a new wave of infection but at a controlled time. So we could re-open schools 'riskily' - no social distancing, no reduced numbers, recognition that staffing levels will be low - but deliberately as part of an 'opening tap' to control flow of ill people into the NHS.

The messages are confused, initially we were told the young were very very low risk and it was safe to send them to school, then schools are closed, lockdown follows and we are told that the young shouldn't be complacent and they could become seriously ill, sadly some children and teenagers have died.

Now we are being told its safe for them to go back to school again, really conflicting and continually changing advice.
My DC developed dry coughs during the last week of school, both dh and me then became ill. Thankfully DC had very minor symptoms but DH and i have needed time off work and I'm still not back to normal over two weeks later. So ime DC may not become really ill but they will definitely spread it, and the people they give it to, school staff, bus drivers , shopworkers, parents etc could become seriously ill.
If they go back to school but lockdown continues it will give very mixed messages and teenagers are very likely to rebel go out after school to town, parks, each others houses etc.

Once they reopen schools there will be no point at all having social distancing measures anywhere. Teenagers will met up outside school, children's activities will restart and inevitably parents will mix. I'm hoping that if people can stick to the measures now, schools may be open after half term.

It is difficult to see the exit plan for this.

A second wave will threaten to overwhelm the NHS just as the first wave did so is the plan to repeat lockdown every three or four months, until a vaccine is ready ( which is likely to be years away yet)?

If we continue the fourteen day self isolation as well then you'll end up with various schools closing due to staff shortages but in a random pattern, so no cohesive plan for working parents, just as hoc opening and closing of schools.

They have to pull together a cohesive plan for exit surely?

If we continue the fourteen day self isolation as well then you'll end up with various schools closing due to staff shortages but in a random pattern, so no cohesive plan for working parents, just as hoc opening and closing of schools.

Exactly. Also, what happens if a class member developed COVID (even supposing that there are tests to show)? Does the class close and quarantine? Does the school close and quarantine? Do we all carry on as normal??

cantkeepawayforever piggywaspushed I said teachers had been decently and properly treated - not cosseted.

However, there is no risk free solution to this - and of we extend the school closures for months longer, vulnerable children and families are slipping deeper and deeper into traps of DV and poverty (and if it goes on until September, the economic impact is going to start massively hitting previously stable low and middle income families too). The impact on children already behind will be huge.
Not every workplace still open is able to socially distance - there are still care workers on minimum wage without PPE showing up to keep people well (which is shameful and need to be fixed also), and many others relying on crowded tubes. Teachers are surely going to have to take some risk here, just as others have been throughout, to keep things going.

interruptions for cleaning

And on that note: School cleaning supplies may be rationed.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-school-cleaning-products-may-be-rationed

Given how utterly filthy schools were before the closures, I can’t imagine how bad things would get on a reduced cleaning service.

Teachers are surely going to have to take some risk here, just as others have been throughout, to keep things going.

And will parents be willing for their kids to take that risk? And bring it home to them?

It’s not just teachers who would be taking risks though would it. It would be children many of whom will also be vulnerable or going home to those who are

Stuck,

All the teachers already running in-school childcare are taking exactly the risks you describe - far from being cosseted, they are being told today that they cannot have PPE and are to expect shortages of soap.

The very specific point I am making is that if schools fully re-open, social distancing is impossble, so should vulnerable teachers be expected to return to the workplace? Organisations like supermarkets etc have stated that these staff are at home on full pay.

The facet that they felt "compelled" to announce this makes them sound like over excited teens.

Teachers are surely going to have to take some risk here, just as others have been throughout, to keep things going

Teachers ARE keeping things going-providing lessons, work and childcare for key workers.

If you expect schools to open with insufficient staff, inadequate cleaning supplies, restricted soap, no testing and no social distancing-that will be hugely risky to every child who attends and anyone they come into contact with. It will be an overnight end to social distancing.

The very specific point I am making is that if schools fully re-open, social distancing is impossble, so should vulnerable teachers be expected to return to the workplace?

And if they aren’t expected in, many schools won’t be able to open.

Well, yes, Appuskidu. We have 50%+ of staff in this category, or caring for highly vulnerable dependents.

I am intrigued as to how I will seat my 30 children any kind of distance apart in a classroom that was barely big enough for them in the first place.
Also distancing in corridors, on playgrounds etc - have the DFE ever met children?!

So, today M and S have announced they are going to provide face shields to their employees.

Looking at how adults on MN are talking about going to the supermarket even with social distancing in place, I can’t imagine that they would happily send their kids off to school with no social distancing or even basic levels of hygiene. They wouldn’t even send them to the supermarket with their spaced queues, sanitised trolley and reduced services.

Does anyone know much about the countries that are reopening schools? One person here has said about the schools in China and another about schools in Iceland-I wonder about others?

If they will have in classes of 30, a depleted staff, no PPE, no testing and very little soap-we should look to them and see how this is going.

If they have small classes, regular testing, adequate PPE and good hygiene-we should watch and see how that goes as well.

If they have small classes, PPE and good hygiene and it works well, let’s hope that information isn’t used to suggest that our set up of no testing, no PPE and large classes will work just fine!!!

stuck your original post heavily implied that teachers were self declaring as vulnerable and that only shielded people should not be working (inaccurate) and implied that more that 'normal' numbers of teachers were self isolating. if more teachers than any other job were in self isolation (I'd like to see the evidence of that for a start) then that would raise questions about the safety of their role, not suggest that they were phoning in sick because they don't want to work.

I self isolated before schools shut. I don't like the inference.
Of course we care about and are aware of the mist vulnerable children in society. I'd be focusing my ire elsewhere about that one. Yesterday on the news there was an 'expert' in DV suggesting that teachers were the ones to help women out with that issue, too and that women could report their abusive partners to a teacher when (?) they received phone calls from the school.. We are not the single answer to all societal ills.