I really think I'm done now.

[Shamazing]

Horrendously behaved children with no manners. Zero support from SLT who seem to be scared of both the pupils and their parents. Staff morale is so low, I can't remember the last time I went into the staffroom and someone wasn't in tears. Oh and this is in a 'nice' area. Just emotionally exhausted with it all, so it looks like this is it for me.

I will hold my hand up and say DS is disruptive in class.
At the end of the summer term I insisted on a meeting with one particular teacher along with DS - where she told me he had been climbing on tables, refusing to engage, had to sit next to the teacher so not to disrupt others, always taking instead of listening etc etc

Now he’s dyslexic and struggles to focus BUT never had anyone told me the level of his rude behaviour or actions - I was shocked and appalled, to say the least.

That teacher now ‘rings home’ as a threat and it works.

Some of us want our kids to learn and be respectful, but we do have to know about it.

He was punished at home and changed his behaviour.

Some of us want our kids to learn and be respectful, but we do have to know about it.

For each parent like you @greentulips there are several who belong to the 'my child can do no wrong, how dare you talk about them like that' camp.

@GreenTulips I wish all parents were like you, but sadly many add to the problem.

I noticed in my DS's school that he was just not being supported (ASD high functioning) because there were 10 in his class with severe SEN and I was known as a teacher and Governor, so was left to pick up the pieces because staff knew DS was supported at home. Meanwhile he couldn't access the curriculum because of the distress and challenges of so many other poor kids in his class.

This was my experience for years, teaching in an inner city school with high deprivation index and a large % of non English speaking children. As in, no words at all. Some were very able but we had no resources (extra adults) to help them. We also had so many SEN children all with different needs, very diverse emotional trauma in some children, kids with parents in prison, quite a few travelling families, various cases of addiction and violence. The children were lovely individuals and I desperately wanted the time and resources to help them all. But classrooms were regularly evacuated due to screaming kids throwing chairs, the ability of classes to listen to very simple instructions was poor and there were so many gaps in previous learning. It was extremely difficult.

However since teaching in a naice leafy area I have noticed some issues are pretty much universal. Gaming has had a huge impact on behaviour. Tiredness due to late nights and unregulated bedtimes, consoles in bedrooms and the derogatory way gaming children speak to each other. Many children don't know how to have a pleasant conversation about anything--football, films, etc and I think there is a link to the gaming headset culture.

Lack of life experiences is another area where there was crossover between the two settings. You might expect this in the deprived area--many children had never left their city, never been to a beach or farm, walked barefoot on grass, etc. So their imagination and writing ability was affected. But some children of busy middle class parents are fobbed off with devices much of the time, don't ever eat dinner with their parents etc.

I think it's a ticking time bomb which has already started to explode. Poor social skills due to babies and young children not being talked to enough, manners not being taught, the high stress lifestyles causing digitally distracted parents. Behaviour is going to get worse.

That teacher now ‘rings home’ as a threat and it works.

This is important and communication with home is a priority for most teachers but if you have 10 children in your primary class who are struggling on a daily basis that's a lot of time in phone calls to keep ringing home. It depends if it's effective or not. For some families it really helps, other parents get very defensive and abusive on the phone or don't follow it up with the child anyway. I spent a lot of time phoning parents who didn't care and that's where you get to a dead end.

Parents are told, but then they request a meeting with slt and talk about how, you are in fact bullying their child. Just for asking them to follow an instruction.
It's gone mad. Slt now ask the children what sanction they would like 🙄🙄🙄 and when my colleague raised her voice, not shouted, but slightly raised her voice, slt stormed in , in front of the pupils and she was told they were a non shouting school 🙄 even raising voices louder then usual, and she may lose her job. FFS. I now have to say that the non shouting policy has gone out of the window........along with the good behaviour. Not saying shouting works, but it's the fact they come in and belittle you in front of class.

I think I've been fortunate re: behaviour - in all my years in primary schools I've had classes with a couple of difficult children, classes which were very hard work, but probably only two classes where I felt the general behaviour was so poor that children weren't learning anything. And probably only two children who physically attacked me. But lots of children with SEN who desperately needed more support and the funding and staffing just wasn't there and there was no chance of getting. And lots of parents who were totally unsupportive or distrusted the education system.
I was a class teacher for 24 years and what drove me out wasn't behaviour but total lack of support from SLT, a bullying headteacher who wanted rid of expensive older teachers, targets which were impossible to achieve and ridiculous amounts of data entry and analysis, planning and paperwork. After a couple of years away from schools, I'm now an HLTA in a lovely school where my skills and experience are fully valued, SEN is much better supported, SLT are lovely and fully supportive of staff and the atmosphere is SO much better. I spend most of my week actually teaching rather than acting as a TA, but barely have any planning or paperwork to do, I get to enjoy working with the kids and I'm finished for the day at 3.30 and don't take ANY work home.

I know I'm fortunate in that my circumstances mean I was able to make this change as many people couldn't afford the drop in salary.

The majority of friends who used to teach with me have also ceased to be class teachers now. Some are now HLTAs, some do supply, one home-tutors excluded children, one runs science workshops for schools, one teaches children in hospital - some now work outside education but most of them are still in education in some way. All of them were excellent and experienced teachers, a great loss to the profession IMO, but were driven out for the same reasons I was.

I look at NQTs now and think very few of them will stick with teaching for 20/30 years!

LuluJakey1 your post is spot on. Behaviour is generally very poor and if parents really knew the extent of the problem they would be horrified. Most lessons are disrupted in some way, some classes are impossible to “teach”; it’s simply a question of crowd control. There is nowhere to place the increasing number of disruptive pupils and , contrary to popular belief, it is not the pupils with SEN that cause most of the disruption in my opinion. More often than not it is children from homes with no boundaries, whose parents support no sanctions, have little concept that their child is not the only child in the class who requires help, and who expect teachers to be emotionless saints, who never feel upset when they are abused.

I spend a significant part of my days dealing with shockingly rude behaviour and it is unbelievably draining. Internalising your anger and frustration in order to be a patient role model is very bad indeed for your mental health.

Sadly, the government has no incentive to acknowledge, let alone fix, the problem because the truth would be very unpalatable to voters: an increasing number of families are not fit for purpose. It is far preferable to blame teachers for society’s woes whilst systematically removing funding. Judging schools solely on results is ridiculous, when pupil intakes are so varied. All teachers know this but when this is pointed out to the authorities it has become fashionable to blame poor teaching. There is no answer to the problem without a turnaround in the behaviour and attitudes of society as a whole.

I am SLT and at the end of my career after more than 30 years. I feel so sorry for my hardworking younger colleagues and cannot imagine that many of them will stay the distance.

I agree ballsdeep that it''s gone mad. We now have kids with their PSAs using the staffroom. It's almost impossible for a member of staff to have even the shortest conversation with the HT before school starts as her office is always full of kids with their mums (who are on first name terms) and when a teacher complained about this, she was told that a soft start was important for these pupils - no mention of anything a teacher might want to see her about being important.
Fast forward later in the day and the "soft starters" are now terrorising younger boys in the toilets, verbally and physically abusing staff, causing classes to miss hall time as they are brandishing equipment around in the corridor etc etc.
Obviously her soft start and nurturing approaching is working as well as an ashtray on a motorbike

Very interesting to read this thread, particularly your comment lulujakey. I have been teaching for 24 years and did some stints in some very tough schools at the start of my career. Back then if you could just about keep your head above water behaviour wise that was all that was expected. I can't imagine the pressure oiupled with modern day accountability and re inventing the curriculum and teaching methods every other year.
My current school had 'Outstanding' behaviour as deemed by Ofsted! Which is worrying if the bar is that low. Behaviour is generally ok but not what I'd hope is Outstanding.
Low level stuff is completely out of hand! Questioning the teachers decisions, answering back, rolling in late, 'banter' with others. It is very difficult to manage.
I just don't understand why it's always been the Elephant in the room!? Why can't we tackle the problem head on? Schools should be able to push accountability back to the govt that the current system is failing at least a 3rd of all children! Hige problems at a Societal level with disrespect, ASB, rising crime, drug and mental health issues are crippling the NHS, Police, Social Care and Education. Obviously all linked!

contrary to popular belief, it is not the pupils with SEN that cause most of the disruption in my opinion

I agree

It genuinely worries me when I think about what some of these children will end up doing. I spoke to a parent recently who quite simply refused to believe that her daughter was behaving the way we described. She just wouldn't have it and accused me of lying. She was shown CCTV footage of behaviour on the bus and her immediate reaction was 'well she must have been provoked'. There are massive behaviour problems in schools now.

Hmm yes, let's give them hot chocolate and biscuits and cosy chats. Incentives to do the smallest thing. Playing with lego, play doh, ipads.

I know these children need to be praised and recognised when they get it right. It just isn't handled well generally. Other more compliant kids feel they don't ever get treats even though they behave beautifully.

I spend a significant part of my days dealing with shockingly rude behaviour and it is unbelievably draining. Internalising your anger and frustration in order to be a patient role model is very bad indeed for your mental health.

This is so true. I used to come home unable to spend time with my own DCs as I was wrung out from managing very volatile behaviour, negotiating, treading on eggshells. Being on high alert like that is terrible for mental health.

The loss of sure start centres, sufficient funding for CAHMS and community support for parents has a lot to answer for. Sadly a huge number of adults are completely unaware of the behaviour crisis and think teachers are having a moan about nothing.

Instant gratification culture, time poor working parents, poverty, lack of exercise and outdoor play, excessive gaming, short childhoods with children watching inappropriate content far too early, low level neglect are all part of the issue.

An author came to the school I work in recently. He was talking about the future, with an emphasis on climate change, to about 300 pupils in years 7 to 9. He then started to talk about how we might improve the world, what type of world we could create. He asked for a show of hands as to who thought the future would be better, who effectively was looking forward optimistically and with hope?

Three children raised their hands. Three. He was gobsmacked. Throughout the talk nearly all their answers were negative. Several children said they wouldn't bother living if certain conditions existed. It was utterly demoralising.

I frequently have children ask me what's the point of school, the point of learning, why do they need a larger vocabulary, to be able to communicate well, that they don't care about things. Everything's boring, pointless, why should they care/be interested. They only light up when they talk about gaming, youtubers etc, or some recent social media scandal they've been party too.

Obviously not every pupil is like this, but it's a theme that runs very strongly throughout the school, which is in a "nice" area. I also see and hear a lot about pupils staying awake in the early hours gaming. One recent story sums things up for me. The pupil said she had been out to the local shop with a friend at 3am. I said what on earth did your mum say when she found out. She looked at me like I was mad and said she asked if she'd got her anything.

instant gratification culture

^^ This a hundred times over.

@BBCK
"Internalising your anger and frustration in order to be a patient role model is very bad indeed for your mental health."

You are so right. It is so draining, aging and at times, crippling.

It's awful in some schools - for all the reasons Lulujakey lists.

There's just no money to deal with it effectively. And there's a results-culture that turns a bad situation into a nightmare.

And the solution in a lot of places is to rely on 'MagicTeacher' to square a circle - and bully teachers because 'MagicTeacher' is pure wishing.

My PGCE was big on 'MagicTeacher'.

If I ever pointed out any of the political and social issues that were causing the system to break at the seams, I was told, 'It's down to the teacher to create the culture in her classroom, ' or 'Yes. And if you recognise all those issues, you know how important it is for you to make a difference.'

But ... that way lies madness.

And it's the opposite of truth-telling, or taking an adult, responsible position on the very real stresses on the education system.

I've said it elsewhere: increasingly, I feel my job walks a fine line between 'doing the best that I can' and 'outright collusion in a breaking system' - with me finding myself on the 'outright collusion with a breaking system' side more often than I care to admit.

It's not OK.

And at some point many, many more people involved in this need to speak out and tell the truth.

☹️

I do think that one issue is that austerity has 'balkanised' schools.

As the cut backs cut deep, schools that face a multitude of problems find it harder and harder. A good input of cash levels differences between (state) schools.

As a supply teacher, I'm repeatedly struck by the differences between schools.

The experience of teaching in school 'A' can be radically different from the experience of a teacher in school But, just a mile away.

How would you know, if you've only ever taught at A or B?

@nicenewdusters

I have a Year 7 form and you're so right about the 'What's the point' culture. Even 'lovely' kids don't seem to have many reserves of resilience, hope or ambition. It's all very negative, cynical even.
When we do PSHE sessions involving real-life scenarios with a 'what should they do', the answers worry me. It's all about the here and now, quick fixes, simplistic views.

Yet when something came up recently on Newsround about a youtuber who had won a big prize or something in USA... every pupil lit up, they all knew them, they all had a detailed and nuanced opinion on the matter, like they'd given it great thought. It was astonishing.

I'm not teaching now, I'm a HLTA. All three candidates interviewed for my post were qualified, experienced teachers.

So long time teachers clamour to be underpaid in a role that is actually manageable with children, physically and emotionally. Whilst unqualified teachers teach day to day in academies.

Ugh.

I'm very happy with my choice to take a HLTA job btw but have taken an enormous pay cut to do so.

"I think there is a link to the gaming headset culture"

Can you tell me a bit more about this? I only have a 10yo girl who has no interest in consoles so I have zero experience but I just know it's affecting my 11-16 boys I teach. What is the culture like?

I'm ill this weekend after spending time in a really demanding school.

Unsurprisingly, I was covering a teacher off with a stress-related illness - and I noticed that about half their staff were actually agency.

It's so sad.

Those are people, who have been made ill - and I'll bet they are carrying a burden of guilt, too - because they weren't 'resilient' enough.

That's crazy.

And the other elephant in the room is that, of course, the education of the children is affected, too.

It's all very grim.

I think there is a link to the gaming headset culture" can you tell me a bit more about this? I only have a 10yo girl who has no interest in consoles so I have zero experience but I just know it's affecting my 11-16 boys I teach. What is the culture like?

Basically banter with lots of put downs, sometimes swearing, mocking each other, crowing when they win etc.

My DCs are younger too but primary kids I've taught who have very intense gaming lives have no idea how to chat to each other normally. They constantly take the piss, it's very negative and a colleague mentioned that when her nephew chats on his headset it's this kind of communication.

Not to say all kids talk in this way whilst gaming but I think it can affect their relationships with their peers.

We did PSHE and these boys were unable to identify feelings on faces ie emojis. This was a red flag to me- they were so emotionally illiterate.

Yes, I definitely recognise what you're saying my in my Y7 and Y8 boys. They don't seem to be able to just hold a normal conversation - with me, a peer, a visitor, anyone.

With the conversation

I’ve noticed you speak to boy A and boy B will jump into the conversation saying something irrelevant/unconnected and boy A will answer, ignoring the adult, they then have a bit of ‘banter’ again not noticing the adult asking a question.

So rude